Hello all.

This certainly looks like a nice place you have here.I'm a former Christian, turned Deist. I've been of a scientific mind most of my life, and as I grew older, I found it harder and harder to accept what I read in the Bible. Finally, around 18 or so, the inevitable collision happened and I became an atheist (BTW, should that be capitalized?) for several months, maybe a year. I believed that once we died, that was it; Game Over, as it were. Then one day surfing the Net, I managed to stumble across a page talking about Deism. It hit me like a bolt from the blue. I "knew" (as much as any would-be scientist can "know" anything) that this was 'right.' My two halves were united in a way they had never been before, and I immediately gained a much more optimistic outlook on life.So now I try and 'preach the gospel,' as it were, of theistic evolution. And I try to 'fight the devil,' the devil in this case being fundamentalists of any religion (or of no religion) who seek to take us back to a theocracy.Everyone here seems nice, and I think I'm going to enjoy my stay. -Thanos6------------------
"When mankind falls into conflict with nature, monsters are born."-Professor Hayashida, Godzilla 1985

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the devil in this case being fundamentalists

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So now the devil is a guy who's NOT calling God a liar? Why would you consider the devil a fundamentalist?------------------
-chris

Isn't the devil's job to turn people from the word of God?Well, those who make a mockery of the Bible can do that. And who better than the literalist fundamentalists to try to make the bible say things that can so easily be mocked?They take the Bible, insist that if it isn't a science text then it must be all wrong. Then, of course, it fails the test as s science text since it was never intended as one. Then for those unfortunate enough to have been brought up to believe the literalist's warped theology that it is either all right or all wrong it may cause them to loose faith.Sounds like the devils work to me.

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Well, those who make a mockery of the Bible can do that. And who better than the literalist fundamentalists to try to make the bible say things that can so easily be mocked?

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Fundamentalists arent trying to say anything, they just read what the bible says and believe it, what do they try and make the bible say?

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They take the Bible, insist that if it isn't a science text then it must be all wrong. Then, of course, it fails the test as s science text since it was never intended as one. Then for those unfortunate enough to have been brought up to believe the literalist's warped theology that it is either all right or all wrong it may cause them to loose faith.

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Well most christians believe God's word is infallible, so the fundamentalists are the only ones not contradicting themselves. Who says it's a scientific text? Are you sure the people who loose their faith ever had faith at all?

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Sounds like the devils work to me.

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If you were talking about your own post I would agree.------------------
-chris[This message has been edited by messenjaH, 10-23-2003]

When I was calling fundamentalists 'the devil' that wasn't meant to be taken literally. And I apologize for any offense I may have caused.What I meant was, when you have theistic evolution on one side and atheistic evolution on another side of a debate, there is little point to debate. Instead, 'we' should jointly concentrate our efforts on the fundies-- but not just any fundies. The, for lack of a better term, EXTREME ones. Khomeini, bin Laden, Robertson...*pinches the bridge of his nose* Am I coming across clearly here? Lord knows that can be hard to do on a message board.

You "concentrate" your efforts to do what?------------------
-chris

Kind of a stupid question, don't you think? How would you tell the difference between somebody who won't ever lose their faith and somebody who just hasn't lost it yet? There but for the grace of God go you.

Keep them from getting their way and gaining a theocracy, of whatever religion.

Well, it seemed to me that was a major point behind a lot of what is posted at this site.There are those who tell me that the earth is 6,000 years old because "the Bible says so". Since it obviously isn't what am I to conclude about the Bible?On top of that they tell me that if I say that the Bible is wrong about the age of the earth then their whole foundation for a morale life collapses. With that I can only conclude that the Bible isn't a very firm foundation upon which to build.If you are *not* one who wants me to use the Bible as a better source for knowledge about the natural world than the natural world itself then I guess you and I don't have any arguement with each other at all. If you are then you are one who, to many people, are setting up the Bible as something to mock.It would be a shame to have that happen when it has so much to say about things not part of the perview of science.

Maybe you can explain to me how trying to get the Christian God out of our schools and off our money is trying to set up a theocracy of atheism - assuming such a thing is possible. Free expression isn't possible when the government is telling you that only Deism is the normal religion.On the other hand, maybe I'm just misunderstanding you, but you'd have a hard time trying to find an atheist who doesn't support the free excercise of religion. But just because you're free to worship who you choose doesn't mean you have to do so in a way that makes me worship it too, or be inconvinienced by it, anyway.

um, I think christianity is out of schools, no prayer, etc....
"Off our money"? I don't understand??
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-chris[This message has been edited by messenjaH, 10-23-2003]

I believe the bible is infallible, leading me to believe the age of the earth is around 6000 yrs old, made the way it says in genesis ie no evolution, but that in noway means it is a scientific text. I mean I consider the Bible to mean "Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth". I mean the bible doesn't really discuss science.------------------
-chris

I think you ARE misunderstanding me. I'm all FOR getting God out of schools and off money.And I may have used the wrong words in a previous post...let me try and say what I mean better. By 'atheist theocracy,' what I meant was the kind of people who say "Enough! No need to discuss God! That's an outmoded concept for outmoded times!" The kind who try and shout down any discussion of theological concepts in ANY forum, the kind who lump all theists/deists in with the YECs. The atheist version of Pat Robertson, I guess. ------------------
"When mankind falls into conflict with nature, monsters are born."-Professor Hayashida, Godzilla 1985

I said "mean(s)" four times in that reply....

Maybe you haven't seen money? It says "God" on it. Why should my money say "In God We Trust" when in fact, I don't trust in things that don't exist?