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Author | Topic: Atheist Frendly Q&A | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18310 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Hi, Mike. It is indeed a mystery as to why God does not deal with Satan directly and instead exacts judgement on the individuals.
God, (and yes, Mike He does exist) did not directly kill the enemies of the Israelites. He knew that there would be conflict since it was His chosen against the unenlightened masses, and perhaps the exterminated pagans were foreknown to have had to die, anyway.We can't feel sorry for them IF it was foreknown that there was some way out for them now, could we?
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Gary Inactive Member |
A question for Christians who do not accept a literal interpretation of Genesis:
If Jesus died to repay the sins of all those who accepted him, and human beings are born with sin due to the sin of Adam and Eve, and the events recorded in Genesis didn't literally happen as they are described, where did the sins that Jesus' death forgave come from? Does his death only repay sins committed by Christians during their own lives? Are people born tainted by sin?
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jar Member (Idle past 416 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
The history of Jesus has several features. One is that he is symbolic of GOD's assurance of forgiveness for ALL mankind, those who are Christians and all others as well.
I don't think most Christian religions place must stock in original sin anymore. Hell, it's unneeded, we're all more than capable of making up for any lack of sin at the beginning. But Jesus' life, death and resurrection is not a get out of jail free card. Nor is any belief in Jesus or profession of Christianity. So it gets a little more complicated at times. Actions speak louder than words. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1366 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
Like I said, unbelievers generally ask too many questions and think too much to be content with pat answers from believers. as i think jar said, believers often ask too few questions. i prefer to do a little of both.
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1366 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
It is indeed a mystery as to why God does not deal with Satan directly and instead exacts judgement on the individuals. well, follow the reasoning along for a second here instead of just saying "i dunno."
mikehager writes: The character "Satan" is powerful enough in his own right to actually threaten your god? Wouldn't that make "God" something less then omnipotent? mike is absolutely right. if hasatan can oppose yahweh, then yahweh obviously doesn't have everything under control. the more you look at it, the more that makes hasatan and yahweh equal in status. but hasatan is not a god, is he? and yahweh is called "god almighty" and "the most high" isn't he? while most religious believers are ready to accept that god gave up a little omnipotence so man could have free will, polytheism is outright abhorent. and so hasatan must be entirely under the control of yahweh, right? in fact, this is precisely the way most jewish people understand it. hasatan is the agent that makes choice meaningful, by providing alternatives and testing the hearts of men. his name means "adversary" in hebrew, but the implication is not adversary of god, but of men. so why would god need to deal with satan? and more importantly, what would happen if he did? faith would become pointless, and christianity would collapse without its cornerstone.
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mikehager Member (Idle past 6489 days) Posts: 534 Joined: |
God, (and yes, Mike He does exist) Sorry. If you're going to make a positive assertion like that, I'm going to have to ask for some proof or ask you to withdraw it. Saying "I believe God exists" is one thing. This is another.
and perhaps the exterminated pagans were foreknown to have had to die, anyway. That's interesting. Do you not believe in free will?
Hi, Mike. It is indeed a mystery as to why God does not deal with Satan directly and instead exacts judgement on the individuals. So, the Lord works in mysterious ways, does he? That's neat and simple. Isn't it nice how that stops questions from being asked?
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Rand Al'Thor Inactive Member |
I have a question, something that I have been wondering about for a while is, why does god even care? Assuming that god is an omnipotent being that created the entire universe(s?) Why would he devote even the smallest amount of attention to us? A gardener does not weep when one of his flowers dies, why would god care about the petty affairs of humans?
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jar Member (Idle past 416 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
A gardener does not weep when one of his flowers dies, why would god care about the petty affairs of humans? Do they weed and prune, prepare the soil, add nutrients not available, water? Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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Phat Member Posts: 18310 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
mikehagar writes: Yes, and because of it, I believe that IF there were a way out for the ancients that died, they most certainly refused it. The way out for them would be to bow to Israel and acknowledge that they were wrong. Do you not believe in free will? Am I too absolutist in my positive assertions? So, the Lord works in mysterious ways, does he? That's neat and simple. Isn't it nice how that stops questions from being asked?
You can ask Him all of the questions that you want. He is much more a friendly and tolerant than I am. I am admittedly a Christian jerk sometimes! If I keep it up, perhaps He may smite me! This message has been edited by Phatboy, 03-13-2005 06:23 AM
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mikehager Member (Idle past 6489 days) Posts: 534 Joined: |
Am I too absolutist in my positive assertions? Yes, you were.
You can ask Him all of the questions that you want. The sort of attitude where one accepts things like "god works in mysterious ways" stops believers from asking questions of themselves and theior religious "leaders", not of self reflection directed at the sky. It's just on of many nice, easy "built ins" in Christianity to prevent questioning.
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Gary Inactive Member |
What significance does the story of Exodus in the Old Testament hold? Is it thought to be true for the most part, or is it completely made up, or somewhere in between? For example, in Exodus 12:37, the Bible mentions that the Jews numbered 600,000 men, not counting children. Is there any evidence that there were this many Jews ever enslaved in Egypt, or this many living in the Sinai Peninsula at any one time?
This message has been edited by Gary, 03-13-2005 16:29 AM
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jar Member (Idle past 416 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
What significance does the story of Exodus in the Old Testament hold? Great question. The story of the Exodus is a tale of the formation of something like a real Nation, and identity. It's the beginning of Nationhood, an identity other then just a religion.
Is it thought to be true for the most part, or is it completely made up, or somewhere in between? There's always the possibility that part of it's true, but if so, the truth would not resemble the tale any more closely than Disney's filming of the Battle of New Orleans resembled the real one. What is lacking is any evidence of the Exodus of a large number of people from Egypt, any indication that an Egyptian army was destroyed, any evidence of a large population anywhere in the area, and NO indication whatsoever of any major invading army taking over Canaan.
For example, in Exodus 12:37, the Bible mentions that the Jews numbered 600,000 men, not counting children. Is there any evidence that there were this many Jews ever enslaved in Egypt, or this many living in the Sinai Peninsula at any one time? No. There is no evidence of a large number of Hebrew slaves in Egypt or of any mass Exodus of any kind. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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coffee_addict Member (Idle past 499 days) Posts: 3645 From: Indianapolis, IN Joined: |
schraf writes:
May be you haven't dealt with PG that much before, but I assure you this is his regular behavior. I've learned to ignore him most of the time, so... waste your time if you want.
Any time he gets backed into a corner, he claims that the argument has become "circular", which it really hasn't.
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nator Member (Idle past 2192 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Oh, I've dealt with him before, and I know it's a regular occurence. I'm an eternal optimist, though!
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Loudmouth Inactive Member |
quote: A devoted pet owner DOES cry. I know I am answering these questions from the wrong side of the fence, but I think the answer is quite obvious. In the Bible, we humans are described as the "Children of God". The Bible sets up the relationship between God and humans, and that Bible says that God looks at us like a Father looks at his Children. Even Jesus told of the Parable of the Prodigal Son, furthering the description of this relationship.
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