Jerry Falwell dead.

You do know that two straight guys can't breed, nor can two straight women, right?

---

"I know some of you are going to say 'I did look it up, and that's not true.' That's 'cause you looked it up in a book. Next time, look it up in your gut."
-Stephen Colbert

Well, there were never a "first two humans" - there was some population considerably larger than two at some long-gone time where you could draw an imaginary line and say "these are humans now." Similar to how you could draw an imaginary line in time and say "these people are speaking Middle English and not Old English now."

Only in that you're operating from the foolish assumption that there were exactly two humans, one male and one female, created on the spot. That's what your religion says, but it's not the way reality works.You realize homosexuality exists in nature, right?If a few of our evolutionary ancestors, even if they were among the first to be called modern humans, were homosexual, it wouldn't have done anything other than remove those two from the gene pool (assuming they werent bisexual and did not have heterosexual sex at all). A minority of individuals among an entire population of simultaneously evolving proto-humans is a statistical blip, not "zomg, we wouldn't exist!!1!"It's irrelevant anyway. It IS wrong, immoral, and disgusting to call someones natural sexual orientation evil, just as it is wrong to discriminate of people based on their race or gender.

---

Every time a fundy breaks the laws of thermodynamics, Schroedinger probably kills his cat.

quote:

---

Until the recent homosexual revolution and until the recent women's lib movement, the most blessed nation on earth faired quite well under the things Falwell espoused before he died.

---

What you mean to say is that as long as one was a white Protestant male, things were pretty nice in the past.I agree.Of course, once women, homosexuals, non-whites, and other oppressed groups and minorities started to demand equal rights, many of you white protestant males didn't like it.Frankly, Buz, your selective memory/spin doctoring of the history of civil rights in this country takes my breath away.You are so completely deluded.

quote:

---

Falwell's passing is a tragedy.

​

/snip

​

...but it ends all opportunity for change in a life that, for all its influence, could have been spent nurturing better ideas.

---

He had many opportunities to change, and chose not to.He led a life devoted to bigotry, religious radicalism, and divisiveness.More than that, he loved being powerful and loved wielding that power in an incredibly negative, hateful, destructive way.Is it tragic when an Imperial Wizard of the KKK dies?The bottom line is, very, very few people, especially powerful religious radicals, will ever change their core beliefs.And anyway, the dude had to be at least 100 pounds overweight, so it is no surprise that he had a sudden cardiac arrest.Edited by nator, : No reason given.

No, just ignorant. There's no such thing as "the first two humans." Now, understand that while it's true that you can trace all of human maternal ancestry back to one woman, and you can trace all of human paternal ancestry back to one man, that woman lived and died 80,000 years before that man was even born.Not to send us totally off-topic, and if you have further questions or gay-bashing idiocy for us you should open a new thread, but if humankind had ever consisted of only two human beings, they and their children probably would have been the last human beings to ever live. Populations can't recover from a bottleneck of only 2 individuals.Gay, straight, it doesn't matter. If it came down to only 2 human beings, human beings would very shortly go extinct.

OK, so THAT is a few minutes of the so-called liberal media I keep hearing about.Of course, by "liberal", I mean, "not right-wing conservative", which is how the wing-nuts see anything more moderate than complete Christian Authoritarianism.Lovely and refreshing to see someone like that on TV news.

quote:

---

Taz I have been preaching since 1962 and I have yet to come across a person I can shove christianity down their throat.

---

Our entire culture is awash in Christianity, ICANT.Since you have always been a Christian, you probably don't even notice it.But anyway, nobody is saying that people trying to shove Christianity down our throats are going to be successful.What we are saying is that there are many, many attempts, which are very annoying.Several of my friends at college got caught by the Mormon cult. I have been approached dozens of times in my adult life by people trying to convert me to Christianity. The Jehovah's Witnesses come knocking on my door several times a month.Where I used to live in Michigan, there were a series of "Billboards from God" along a major highway.Religious people get special treatment at work, like not having to work Sundays, even on the busiest days of the year.I could go on, but you get the idea.Edited by nator, : No reason given.

Perhaps this will help ICANT:Imagine if, everywhere you went, 90% of the people you meet honestly beleive that you are doomed to an eternal burning torturous Hell for not being of their religion.Now imagine that many of these people like to bother you, often, and TELL you that, unless you believe in Xenu the Space Emperor, you WILL spend an eternity of suffering when you die, regardless of whether you're a good person or not.It;s nearly impossible for a hardline fundamentalist Christian to have even the slightest understanding of this principle, but there is no greater terrorism than "Join us or burn for eternity!" The US particularly is so filled with Christian rhetoric from every street corner that it's impossible to live without the faithful encroaching on our lives.You would call it "missionary work" or "ministry." I call it "being threatened by an idiot."

---

Every time a fundy breaks the laws of thermodynamics, Schroedinger probably kills his cat.

Imagine all the liquor stores and bars closing down because Muslims decided that, since alcohol was against their religion, nobody else should be allowed to drink, either. Imagine them just deciding this, and then not really allowing people to even talk about it. If you tried to point out what they had done, imagine that they would interrupt you and accuse you of being a "fundamentalist non-Muslim." So it would be hard to get the word out about what they were doing, because any time you tried to talk about it, they would drown you out with the statistics on alcoholism and drunk driving. The media would make it seem like the only two sides to the story was complete tee-totaling or complete drunkenness and alcoholism.Wouldn't quite seem fair, would it? Probably not too many Muslims would notice, though. Would they? I mean they're not even going to bars, so why would they notice the absence?That's what it would be like - and that's how you haven't yet noticed that its going on. You're a Christian, so you don't even notice when Christians make everybody else live like a Christian. From your perspective that's just the way normal people live.

I'm in the process of moving and my home computer is still up in Portland. I have to use a community computer on an Air Force base. As might be expected on a government computer, there are very tight restrictions on what sites one can go to. As well, I've completely lost the ability to "cut and paste," even when I use the "control" functions of the computer. So anyway, in case you were wondering, that is why I'm not quoting you. I'll just have to remember the gist of your post and try and respond as best I can soley from memory.As for Falwell, like I said, I have never been a fan. And as much good he has done his life, I feel he has done more to harm the name of Jesus than good. I could be wrong, but that's how I feel about it. His style of preaching is one that I'm not aligned with, and because of it, Falwell, and people like him, make alot of Christians play the fool-- because, as the Bible says, a little leaven leavens the whole lump. Meaning, it only takes a little bit of bad influence to corrupt an entire family/church/community/city/state/nation, etc.But for however much flaw I saw in Reverend Falwell, I would never wish him harm or say the awful things that some people have said about him. I have a strong aversion towards the Nation of Islam. But I would never dance on the grave of Elijah Mohammed. In fact, my first inclination is to feel sorrow for a man, that I believe, who has died, but while alive, walked on a path to destruction.I have to defer to Jesus on this one. As you said Phat, He tells us to pray for our enemies. Obviously to our atheist friends, who would they pray to? Well, they needn't have to pray in order to follow the gist of the command. I mean, I think everyone, theist and non-theist alike, can understand why it is not only distasteful to speak so disparagingly about others-- even those you dislike immensely-- but its also dangerous to one's own psyche.Being angry at Falwell to the point of hatred does absolutely nothing to Falwell... So guess who it does effect? It effects the person who feels the hatred. It comes back on them, not Falwell. You don't need to be a theist or a psychologist to understand that principle. Its common sense.

---

"God is like the sun. You can't look at it. But without it you can't look at anything else." -G.K. Chesterton

You say that Falwell did more harm than good. Maybe he did, maybe he didn't. The issue is rejoicing over someone's death. The man is dead. And when he passes through the refiners fire, he will either be burned up like chaff, or he will come out clean in the eyes of his Maker. The point is, lets let God do His job.Is it wrong to feel anger towards Falwell? No, it isn't. Anger is a perfectly legitimate, God-given emotion. However, if it festers and is undealt with, we see a very unhealthy form of anger-- hatred.If we're going to simply going to critique Falwell, then lets do that. But must we be so meanspirited about it?All I did was offer an admonishment to Berberry. Who among us can honestly say that I was wrong for doing so? Heck, if I was a betting man and I slandered Saddam after he was executed, I'd be a wealthy man, because I have no doubt I would have been chastized for doing so.Lastly, if Jerry Falwell is "evil," then evil must exist as more than an opinion. In which case, you would have to revise your philosophical view on morality in order to call him evil and have it be more than mere opinion.

---

"God is like the sun. You can't look at it. But without it you can't look at anything else." -G.K. Chesterton

I agree, which is why I'm not asking why you don't respect him. You are certainly entitled to your opinion of him. I have no qualms with that whatsoever. I'm simply wondering why you feel the compulsion to say horrible things about him.But let me break it down Barney-style so that everyone understands what I'm saying. Two wrongs don't make a right. Its just that simple. This is Kindergarten ethics we're talking about here. Bascially you are saying, without realizing it, Falwell was an asshole, therefore, I'm justified in being an asshole to him. Come on Rahvin! That's Kindergarten stuff. You know better than that, don't you?Are you seriously going to disagree with me on that?

---

"God is like the sun. You can't look at it. But without it you can't look at anything else." -G.K. Chesterton

Sorry, but I have not shown hatred. I have acknowledged that one of the Three Great Threats to the US and a person who more than most any other has worked to create that Christian Cult of Ignorance that is Biblical Christianity, who helped create the climate that directly lead to hundreds of thousands of unnecessary deaths, that was a bigot and hatemonger, that perverted the message of Christ, that was a Blasphemer of the Holy Spirit, will no longer cause direct harm. Of course it is my opinion supported by ample evidence that Jerry Falwell specifically was an evil person who did only harm and did it solely for the money. Like almost all of the leadership of US Biblical Christianity, he was looking for nothing more than a legal con.

---

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Emphasis added by Nemesis_Juggernaut for dramatic effectBingo! If anyone has misunderstood my point, this post clears up my sentiments exactly. If we want to talk about how Falwell was an evil man who brought harm to the name of Christ, or brought the country to weakened state, or how he was duplicitous, etc, etc, we can do that all day long. I have no problem with this kind of debate. But we have people here who are saying the most vile and meanspirited things about him.The law of reciprocity stands firm here. You get what you give; you reap what you sow. Its common sense. By saying repulsive things about a man who someone claims says repulsive things, makes them no different from they.

---

"God is like the sun. You can't look at it. But without it you can't look at anything else." -G.K. Chesterton