CrashFrog vs. Juhrahnimo: A friendly discussion

Edited: off-topic rants by moi.This message has been edited by Jacen, 01-17-2005 13:05 AM

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Here is something to relieve stress.

​

a + b = t
(a + b)(a - b) = t(a - b)
a - b = at - bt
a - at = b - bt
a - at + t/4 = b - bt + t/4
(a - t/2) = (b - t/2)
a - t/2 = b - t/2
a = b
Since all numbers are the same, math is useless.

Crash,
Sorry for not responding sooner; I had to navigate through some mild turbulence since your post. I'll be prioritzing your posts from henceforth. My bad. I respect you for that saying that. But atheism offers no hope for you after they throw dirt over you. God offers you know what. You're right no doubt. But there are many things that happen that leave us scratching our heads. Even doctors are often forced to use the word "miracle" after all hope had been at one time lost. ("miracle" is an often loosely used word, but it basically means something happened that was or was supposed to be humanly impossible).But let's say a modern day miracle happened, and there are several eye-witnesses willing to testify as to what they saw. How would we test their testimony? You say you believed in the resurrection at one time, but no longer; how do you feel about the testimony found in the four gospels? I'm not sure if we want to go into that.

CF,
Athesism is also a quite interesting subject. A recent article caught my attention from ABCNEWS about a famis atheist that you probably already heard about. It's not that he's become a Christian at all (he hasn't), but what he said is certainly as interesting as what Einstein said in 1936: I understand that Einstein supposedly wrote that to a child in a letter, but his words seem well thought-out so my guess is Einstein meant those words. I know Einstein's words have been interpreted differently by both Evolutionists and Creationists to the point to shouting matches, but I still think his comments are very interesting. Especially in light of the ABCNEWS report I mentioned.Do you feel the same urge or thoughts as Antony Flew or Einstein in this regard? (not necessarily to the point of believing in any one particular God, of course).

Ok, sorry about that. I was still hoping to continue, though.

Crash, I'm truly sorry for disapointing you. I won't defend myself.But in parting, here's just something I've thought about since you basically said you were given a wrong impression. Jesus' disciples found themselves in a similar situation. They followed Jesus fully believing that he was the Son of God and the prophesied King. They learned this by doing some reading and listening to others. They followed Jesus thinking that he would restore the kingdom to Israel, drive out the Romans, perhaps even defeating them, and then taking the throne and becoming kind in Jerusalem. They followed him for YEARS thinking this. Then with very little notice, Jesus was arrested and they scattered like rats. This wasn't supposed to happen if Jesus was to be King. Then Jesus was killed and buried. Now the disciples were totally flabbergasted and confused; how could this happen to their King? The problem was that they listened to "people" and tried reading the scriptures using their own understanding instead of listening to the words of Christ. They wanted their OWN plan carried out rather than learning what God's plan was all about. Of course, they weren't converted in spirit yet (Jesus had not yet died and risen) but that's getting off on a tangent. It's sort of the same experience you had; you believed in Jesus, but listened to some advice that gave you a false impression (as you stated) and you were left disapointed. I fully understand that. It's certainly something to ponder.But anyway, the plan of salvation is different from what some people will tell us. God does not promise us riches, or supernatural powers. He promises us all that we NEED here on earth, but death for our flesh is inevitable for reasons the Bible states. Some of us will die at age 1, some at age 100+, but we will all die at some point. Some of us become apostles, others preachers, others street sweepers or pooper-scoopers, but we can't be mad at God because he didn't give us what we wanted or felt we deserved.I wish we could have talked some more because you seem sincere. You became disapointed in me, but that's what happens if you watch makind long enough (some of us need much longer to disapoint, others of us are quicker). That's why we need to focus on Jesus and trust his will; he'll follow through on his promises (in his Father's house are many mansions and he's gone to prepare a place for us).If you don't respond, I'll understand.

I don't want you to think I'm ignoring you, especially after you've so sincerely tried to steer the topic back on track.But I simply don't see a spiritual common ground for us to discuss from, so I simply don't think it will be fruitful. I appreciate the effort, though.

I remember Jason Chin and a number of his AKA's. This Juhrahnimo sounds an awful lot like him.lfen

I Think I should apologise for perhaps overstating how we will know if these things be true, if we try it. I do beleieve we will, but I think I made it sound a little like it was a sudden thing. In these threads, in fearing the axe of the moderators, sometimes there is a pressure to keep real short some things you know they hate talking about (God). Couple this with a little of the 'dj syndome'- where you kinda want to 'light up the boards' by stating some points in as colorful, and strong a light as we can, so as that it will get attention.
If a child was brought up in the faith, and had a nourishing upbringing, normally we would think they would have a fair bit of faith, which, after all comes from "hearing, and hearing by the the word of God". I was a teen when I got saved, and felt no noticable effects for quite a while. Others told me they had dreams, visions, prophesies, tongues, etc, so I felt quite inferior in some ways. As I look back, though, I can see a long line of miracles, and a growing confidence in the reality of the spirit world, and heaven. I hate to admit it has been about 30 years now. When I first prayed it was like 'God, if there is a God, come into my heart, if I have a heart' type thing. Now, I know deep down He is that great spirit of Love that made everything. I can't imagine a world that is anything else but say, grade 1, and merely a place we learn some things, and make certain progress, etc. Eternity is what I look forward to. A place where we can fly, walk through walls, love the girls all day, learn great cosmic mysteries, enjoy life, work at things we really like, (and that acomplish a lot of good), right all wrongs, etc. So, yes, I do believe He will show us He's real. I do know there has been, and is, a world of healings, and miracles. I guess it takes more time in some cases. Being "born again" like being born the first time, takes a while to see and understand things.

Stephen Fretwell, once-and-future ecologist and author of Populations in a Seasonal Environment, Princeton U Press, 1972. A minor but still important piece of early ecology research that is still occasionally referenced.

I was just trying to understand what goes on in the mind of someone who was once a Christian, having believed in God and Jesus, to doing an about face and believing in, well, I guess nothing outside of the physical world. I guess. Maybe that's what I'm trying to figure out.
But as to the question, do I want to convert you back? Of course; I want everyone converted back, but that's not what the thread is for as I just mentioned.If you want to drop it, ok, no hard feelings. But I'm hoping you'll still respond.

Sorry, never heard of Jason Chin or whether he has any aliases or not.

[Off-topic rant]Speaking as someone that has encountered Jason Chin, your avatar is an eerie resemblance of the personality of Jason Chin.[/Off-topic rant]Cheers.

---

Here is something to relieve stress.
Assume that a does not equal b.

​

a + b = t
(a + b)(a - b) = t(a - b)
a - b = at - bt
a - at = b - bt
a - at + t/4 = b - bt + t/4
(a - t/2) = (b - t/2)
a - t/2 = b - t/2
a = b
Since all numbers are the same, math is useless.

Can't help ya with that. Again, I ain't him, don't know him, haven't even read any of his posts. Is he still on the forum? What's his forum name (handle)? I might be interested in some of his posts perhaps.
Oh, since you find it eerie, would you be more comfortable if I changed my avatar?

Thanks for relating that. Sounds like a clear link to Psalm 27: 14a (Wait upon the Lord...).

Hmm. While I was away from the keyboard, I realized that my last post to you didn't really ask a specific question (I don't think so anyway). Let me try this; in regard to the ABC NEWS ARTICLE that I mentioned earlier, what are your thoughts? To be honest, I had never heard of Flew before so all I can go by is what is in the article. It says he hasn't become a Christian, but he certainly believes in an intelligent creator of at least some kind. Strangely, he mentions the "unbelievable complexity" of DNA is what convinced him, despite a number of atheists stating the opposite. Your thoughts?Sidenote: I understand you're not wanting discuss spirituality with me; but plz don't judge all Christians due to my failures. But I'm wondering if we could talk about the former-atheist idea for a while (before we let the thread die)? Thnx.