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Author Topic:   Why NOT Christ Lineage through Joesph's boodline, Instead of Judah's
lfen
Member (Idle past 4677 days)
Posts: 2189
From: Oregon
Joined: 06-24-2004


Message 91 of 184 (277272)
01-08-2006 6:46 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by Brian
01-08-2006 6:31 PM


Re: Excellent
Oh no, man, Willowtree copyrighted it!?
Does that mean everytime I win an argument because my opponent can't refute me I have to pay Ray royalties?
Guess I'm gonna have to start losing more arguments to stay out of debt.
lfen

This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by Brian, posted 01-08-2006 6:31 PM Brian has not replied

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 92 of 184 (277298)
01-08-2006 8:03 PM
Reply to: Message 85 by ramoss
01-08-2006 12:31 PM


Re: The Limitation of Solomon
Ramoss,
The Old Testament did not say that Christ would be Solomon’s descendent. It did prophesy repeatedly that Christ would be a descendent of David (2 Samuel. 7:13-14; Jer. 23:5)
You said a lot of things.
Except for the claim that 'God can do anything he wants', what is anything that is relavent to the blood line of the messiah and the bloodline of Joseph?
You did not point out the contradiction between 1 Chron, 22:9 and Romans 1:1-4.
As far as me suposedly saying “God can do anything he wants” -
I think you may be refering to this which I wrote:
God will be true to Himself and will not allow His hands to be tied by one who disobeys Him. He has the wisdom and the authority to fulfill His promise to David's seed without being limited to the descendents of Solomon.
That is a little different from saying “God can do anything he wants”
I don’t think that what you attribute to me as saying is an accurate representation.
You said that SOlmon had 300 wives, and a bunch of concubines..
I said 600 wives and three hundred concubines. The Bible says:
”And he had seven hundred princess wives and three hundred concubines, and his wives turned his heart away.
And when Solomon was old, his wives turned his heart after other gods; and his heart was not perfect toward Jehovah his God like the heart of David his father.
And Solomon went after Ashotoreth the goddess of the Sodonians and after Milcom the detestable thing of the Ammonites.
And Solomon did what was evil in the sight of Jehovah and did not fully follow Jehovah as David his father had done.
Then Solomon built a high place to Chemosh the detestable thing of Moab in the mountain that is before Jerusalem and to Molech the detestable thing of the chilren of Ammon.
And so he did for all his foreign wives, who burned incense and offered sacrifices to their gods. (1 Kings 11:3-8)
Now the crucial point is what did this terrible apostasy do to Solomon’s descendents concering the kingdom and the kingship?
”So Jehovah became angry with Solomon because his heart turned away from Jehovah the God of Israel, who had appeared to him twice.
And who had commanded him concerning this very matter, not to go after other gods; but he did not keep that which Jehovah had commanded.
And Jehovah said to Solomon, Because you have done this and have not kept My covenant and My statutes, which I commanded you, I will surely tear the kingdom away from you and give it to your servant.
However I will not do it in your days, because of David your father, I will tear it out of your son’s hands.
But I will not tear the whole kingdom away from you; I will give you one tribe to your son because of David My servant and because of Jerusalem, which I have chosen. (1 Kings 11:9-13)
This discipline of God upon Solomon should be enough for us to realize that God might take another avenue to bring about the Messiah from the body of David not necessarily through the descendents of Solomon.
I would like to see any verse in Scripture claiming for Solomon what was claimed for David as in 2 Samuel 7:12. Where is the verse claiming the same thing for Solomon concerning ”I will raise up your seed after you, which will come forth from your body” as is related to the Messiah?
So, how does that deny the fact that the line of the David has to go through him according to the verses I had provided? How does that counter the verses that Joseph (according to Matthew) came from a cursed line?
It doesn't.
I don’t argue that Joseph came from the cut off line of Jeconiah.
But quoted above, 1 Kings 11:1-13 should signal that God counted Solomon’s line a failure, for the most part. And I see nothing Messianic associated exclusively with the Solomon fruit of Solomon’s body as I see it with David. He did leave Solomon and his son something of a remnant of the torn away kingdom. But God was not obligated to bring the Messiah through the line of Solomon.
In His wisdom God had this option to obtain His desire:
”And these were born to him [David] in Jerusalem: Shimea and Shobab and Nathan and Solomon: four, by Bathsua the daughter of Ammiel.” (1 Chron. 1:5)
Psalm 89 shows God’s discipline, rejection, abhorance, profaning, and casting off of His covenant with the bad elements of the Davidic line. These words were written by Ethan the Ezrahite who was a wise man in the time of Solomon:
”Once I have sworn by My holiness; I will not lie to David. His seed shall endure forever, And his throne, like the sun before Me .
But you have cast off and rejected; You have been angry with your anointed. You have abhorred the covenant of Your servant; You have profaned his crown by casting it to the ground . You have made his brightness to cease and have cast down his throne to the ground . Where are Your former acts of loving kindness, O Lord, Which You swore to David in Your faithfulness?” (See Psalm 89)
God does not have to fulfill His messianic promise through the bloodline of Solomon. So Christ can be the Anointed King descendent of David but not through the rejected line of Solomon and Jeconiah. And that is what happened.
David was left with only a little stump. And out of this little stump of Joseph and Mary, the little Shoot of Jesus was born unto Mary the virgin, a descendent of David.
In the days of Jeremiah the prophet records this word of God:
”Indeed, days are coming, Declares Jehovah, When I will raise up to David a righteous Shoot;
And He will reign as King and act prudently and will execute justice and righteousness in the land . ” (Jer. 23:5)
Lastly, Jesus says that He is this Offspring of David in Revelation:
”I Jesus have sent My angel to testify to you these things for the churches. I am the Root and Offspring of David, the bright and morning star.” (Rev. 22:16)
This message has been edited by jaywill, 01-08-2006 08:05 PM
This message has been edited by jaywill, 01-08-2006 08:18 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by ramoss, posted 01-08-2006 12:31 PM ramoss has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 93 by ramoss, posted 01-08-2006 11:38 PM jaywill has replied

  
ramoss
Member (Idle past 611 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 93 of 184 (277363)
01-08-2006 11:38 PM
Reply to: Message 92 by jaywill
01-08-2006 8:03 PM


Re: The Limitation of Solomon
The Rabbi's claim otherwise.
And, according to the lineage in Moses, Jesus is disqalified because he is through a cursed line anyway..
After all in 1 Chronicials it says
quote:
1 Chronicles 22:9 Behold, a son shall be born to thee, who shall be a man of rest; and I will give him rest from all his enemies round about: for his name shall be Solomon, and I will give peace and quietness unto Israel in his days. [10] He shall build a house for my name; and he shall be My son, and I [will be] his Father; and I will establish the throne of his kingdom over Israel for ever. (KJV)
This means that it has to go through solomon.
And as for Jesus's line through Jeconiah, we can look at Jeremiah 22:24
quote:
Jeremiah 22:24 [As] I live, saith the LORD, though Coniah the son of Jehoiakim king of Judah were the signet upon my right hand, yet would I pluck thee thence; [25] And I will give thee into the hand of them that seek thy life, and into the hand [of them] whose face thou fearest, even into the hand of Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon, and into the hand of the Chaldeans. [26] And I will cast thee out, and thy mother that bare thee, into another country, where ye were not born; and there shall ye die. [27] But to the land whereunto they desire to return, thither shall they not return. [28] [Is] this man Coniah a despised broken idol? [is he] a vessel wherein [is] no pleasure? Wherefore are they cast out, he and his seed, and are cast into a land which they know not? [29] O earth, earth, earth, hear the word of the LORD. [30] Thus saith the LORD, Write ye this man childless, a man [that] shall not prosper in his days: for no man of his seed shall prosper, sitting upon the throne of David, and ruling any more in Judah.
Thus, according to the bible, the Messiah has to be though solomon, and can not be through Jeconiah.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by jaywill, posted 01-08-2006 8:03 PM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 94 by jaywill, posted 01-09-2006 11:58 AM ramoss has replied

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 94 of 184 (277541)
01-09-2006 11:58 AM
Reply to: Message 93 by ramoss
01-08-2006 11:38 PM


Re: The Limitation of Solomon
To the Moderator:
I am going to write some things in this post which I suspect a moderator will say that it is “off the topic.” But these things are not off the topic IMO. They relate to God’s methods of fulfilling His prophetic words in surprising and unexpected ways in the Hebrew Bible. I feel that this is on the topic of so-called “bloodline” promises in this discussion.
Ramoss,
The Rabbi's claim otherwise.
I don’t envy you the confict of claims that you as a Jew have to deal with. But if I were you and I was willing to follow the truth where ever it leads, I would also consider the history of the claim of these rabbis that you refer to.
The reason for this is that after the beginning of the Christian church Judaism was strongly architectured and structured around one primary objective: that of rejection of Jesus of Nazareth as the Messiah. I think therefore that you should examine WHEN this Solomon bloodline compliant began to surface in history.
At least you owe it to yourself to ask why such an objection did not arise at the very time of Jesus’ earthly ministry. Or was this a more recent revisionism raised by rabbis much latter?
And, according to the lineage in Moses, Jesus is disqalified because he is through a cursed line anyway..
quote:
1 Chronicles 22:9 Behold, a son shall be born to thee, who shall be a man of rest; and I will give him rest from all his enemies round about: for his name shall be Solomon, and I will give peace and quietness unto Israel in his days. [10] He shall build a house for my name; and he shall be My son, and I [will be] his Father; and I will establish the throne of his kingdom over Israel for ever. (KJV)
I am not sure what you meant by “a cursed line anyway.” It sounds like you are saying concerning my previous post that regardless of those things Jesus is from a cursed line anyway.
The rabbis have had 2,000 some years to rationalize their opposition to Yeshua being the Messiah. They have had centries to hone their compliants against the messiahship of Jesus Christ.
On one hand you say that the Messiah must be a descendent of Solomon. Then on the other hand you say that the line was cursed and cut off because of Jeconiah. That is why you quote to me Jeremiah 22:24.
I view this as an act of desperation. If you can’t counter Jesus the Messiah through one method, you have a back up method. You think you can disqualify Him if He is a descendent of Solomon through Jeconiah. And a backup is that if He is not a descendent of Solomon He is disqualified.
In a good sense God can be “sneaky.” He can fulfill His messianic promises to David without going through the line which some Jews would EXPECT Him to go through - Solomon’s.
You should know by reading the Hebrew Bible that God can be “sneaky.” Don’t be surpised at my saying this. Wasn’t God being “sneaky” when He caused the offense Joseph’s dream to his 11 brothers to be the actual catalyst to fulfill that dream?
(Moderators - please do not say this is “off the topic” because it is on the subject. It is on the subject of the track record of how God fulfills His prophetic promises in unexpected ways sometimes.)
Joseph had a dream of his mother, father, and brothers bowing down to him. His brothers hated him already because he was daddy Jacob’s favorite son with the outstanding colorful garment. Even Jacob didn’t think too highly of the idea of Joseph dreaming that his father and mother would do homage to him. Because of the very dream they sold him into slavery. But God turned all these misfortunes into the very backround that caused Joseph to ascend to governmental authority in Egypt. Eventually they did come down and bow themselves to the ground before Joseph.
This should show us that God. in His providence, His forknowledge, and His sovereignty, can accomplish His plans in a “sneaky” way. He can overcome the obstacles of man’s failures.
This is still on the subject of the lineage of the Messiah. In the blessing of Jacob concerning his son Joseph, the prophet jacob said that:
”Joseph is a fruitful bough, A fruitful bough by a fountain; His branches run over the wall. The archers bitterly attacked him, And shot at him; But his bow remained firm, And the arms of his hands were agile, By the hands of the Mighty One of Jacob - From there is the Shepherd, the stone of Israel . ” (Genesis 49:24).
The fulfillment of the prophetic dream of Joseph was like a branch branching over the wall. The wall was the bitter opposition of his brothers and the lies and misfortunes that he underwent in Egypt. But God caused Joseph to branch over all of these obstacles.
The same can be seen with other Old Testament partriarchs and saints. And the same is true of the Messiah. God branched over the walls of Solomon’s idolatry and Jeconiah’s curse. He fulfilled His promises to David in a “sneaky” way branching over the obstacles of man’s failures.
Both Matthew and Luke teach that Joseph, the husband of Mary, was not the father of Jesus. Jesus was miraculously born of a virgin. That takes care of the Jeconiah “bloodline” problem. I believe the gospels.
Secondly, Mary was a descendent of David. So God fulfilled His promise that the Shoot of David would spring up and be King of Israel.
But He is today the rejected King until His second coming. And this is prophecy also in the book of Zechariah for one.
Now I will comment on your reference to 1 Chron. 22:9.
Solomon is mentioned there by name as the one to build a splendid house for Jehovah of cedar wood.
” . for Solomon will be his name . it is he who will build a house for My name . and I will establish the thone of his kingdom over Israel forever”
We must realize that the house of cedar wood for God cannot be the real and ultimate house of God. This is admitted by Solomon himself, let alone God. In Solomon’s dedication prayer he prays this to God:
”Now therefore, O Jehovah, God of Israel, may Your word that You spoke to Your servant David be confirmed.
BUT [my emphasis] . will God indeed dwell with man on the earth? Behold, the heavens and the heaven of heavens are not able to contain You, how much less this house which I have built.
Yet have regard to the prayer of Your servant and to his supplication . That your eyes may be open toward this house day and night, toward the place of which You said that You would put Your name there, to listen to the prayer which Your servant will pray toward this place” (See 2 Chron. 6:17-20)
Solomon realizes that this spendid house for Jehovah cannot be the final reality of God’s dwelling place with man. Although it was very important in the history of Israel, and still is today, as the Jews pray toward its ruins, it is only a dwelling of God with man in type. There must be a more solid reality still to come, as far as Solomon is concerned. And this is echoed by God Himself:
”Heaven is my throne, and the earth the footstool for My feet. Where then is the house that you will build for Me, And where is the place of My rest? (Isa. 66:1)
We might protest and say, “But God, don’t you remember the house that Solomon built for you?”[/b]
God says in essence, that that house doesn’t count in the final analysis. He looks toward a certain kind of man in whom He will live and in whom He will dwell to really obtain a house for God:
”For all these things My hand has made. But to this kind of man will I look, to him who is poor and of a contrite spirit, and who trembles at my word” (verse 2)
Without going into much detail, it has to be clear to us that God desires to LIVE IN MAN for His house. The house of cedar has its place. And they rebuilt it and shall do so again. But ultimately God’s will is to dwell in man.
When Mary a descendent of David, and a virgin, brought forth God incarnated as Jesus Christ, a offspring of David (not through Solomon or Jeconiah), God began to build His true dwelling place in humanity. He began to dwell in man for His rest. And that is all I will say about that right now.
Now the problem is that for some people to think God has a son and He is the Father of that son, is a trivial matter. They think this is just some religious talk. They think this is just some spiritual sounding speech. But God is quite serious.
To be the son of God means to express the attributes of the Father. It means that the Son is the expression of the Father in His divine nature and divine glory.
Solomon fell short of expression the divine attributes of God. He was very wise. And for a season he was very good as a king of Israel. But when Jesus was born and started His ministry, truly, something greater than Solomon was on the earth.
Psalm 89 shows us that the degraded elements of the Davidic line were rejected by God:
”You have abhored the covenant of Your servant; You have profaned his CROWN [by casting it] to the ground . You have made his brightness cease and cast down his THRONE to the ground . How long, O Jehovah? Will You hide Yourself forever” (See Psalm 89) [My emphasis]
Solomon’s line was disciplined. His apostasy after many foreign gods and idols did not become a blessing to his legacy. God reserved for Himself another legal way to fulfill His promise to David of a Messianic King as His Son truly expressing the divine glory of the divine Father. This Son was God incarnate as a Man - Jesus.
He is not only the Messiah of Israel (presently and temporarily rejected). He is the Savior of the world promised to Eve and Adam in Genesis. He is the seed of the woman (born of a virgin) to buise the head of the ancient serpent, the Devil. He was the woman’s seed. He was born of a virgin woman. And in the process His heel was bruised in His crucifixion on the cross. But in His resurrection He conquered death.
”And I will put enmity between you and the woman and between your seed and her seed;
He will bruise you on the head, but you will bruise him on the heel.” (Gen. 3:15)
”And Jacob begot Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ” (Matt.1:16)
The bottom line here is that the ultimate house of God is not the one of cedar and gold. But it is the man in whom God lives in incarnation.
Secondly, to be the Son of God is not just sanctimoneous speech. The man with 700 wives and 300 concubines who departed from Yahweh to worship Ashoreth, Milcom, Chemosh, Molech, was not the real Son of the Father. The Son of the Father must express the righteousness, holiness, and glory of the Father.
Jesus as the real Son of the Father and descendent of David, is the Son of Man who expressed the Eternal Father in human flesh, to the uttermost by His life, death, resurrection, and enthronement among other things which He accomplished as a man.
This message has been edited by jaywill, 01-09-2006 12:01 PM
This message has been edited by jaywill, 01-09-2006 12:04 PM
This message has been edited by jaywill, 01-09-2006 12:06 PM
This message has been edited by jaywill, 01-09-2006 12:09 PM
This message has been edited by jaywill, 01-09-2006 12:12 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by ramoss, posted 01-08-2006 11:38 PM ramoss has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 95 by ramoss, posted 01-09-2006 9:27 PM jaywill has replied

  
ramoss
Member (Idle past 611 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 95 of 184 (277635)
01-09-2006 9:27 PM
Reply to: Message 94 by jaywill
01-09-2006 11:58 AM


Re: The Limitation of Solomon
Well, you seem to be hung up with Solomon having all those wives and conumbines.
That was a matter of prestige in that time period. You are misreading everything.
None of what I said is 'desperation' it is just what is in the bible.
I know that the conclusion is not what you want.
Cursed means.. that line is prohibited from producing an annointed one , i.e. king, i.e. mosishe.
Mary's line is totally irrelavent, because 1) Neither of the lineages given in Luke or Matthew is through her, and 2) it wouldn't matter anyway, since the lineage of the king has to go through an unbroken male line.
You can believe what you want about Jesus, but the stories in Matthew and Luke, aside from contradicting each other, also contradict the Jewish laws on the lineage of Kings. Besides, because of the fact Mary is the cousin of John the Baptists mother, that shows she was a levite, and not of the davidic lineage.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by jaywill, posted 01-09-2006 11:58 AM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 97 by jaywill, posted 01-09-2006 10:43 PM ramoss has replied

  
One4Truth
Inactive Member


Message 96 of 184 (277642)
01-09-2006 10:06 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by JimBobCarl
12-14-2005 1:15 PM


The Genealogies of Christ
I don't pretend to fully understand this one - it seems like a very deep one to me - but maybe this will help someone else:
Catholic Magazines & Religious Articles | Catholic Answers

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by JimBobCarl, posted 12-14-2005 1:15 PM JimBobCarl has not replied

Replies to this message:
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jaywill
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 97 of 184 (277646)
01-09-2006 10:43 PM
Reply to: Message 95 by ramoss
01-09-2006 9:27 PM


Re: The Limitation of Solomon
Ramoss,
Well, you seem to be hung up with Solomon having all those wives and conumbines
Just having the wives and concubines is not the main point. The main point is that the foreign wives led him into idolatry.
Once again, to be a son of God is not to be taken as just some nice sounding title. With God it MUST have substance. Don't miss my point.
That was a matter of prestige in that time period. You are misreading everything.
I quoted to you the valuation of Solomon's reign from the Bible itself. That is what God had the writers of Scriptures tell us about Solomon's life.
Can you blame me for putting it in negative terms? Read for yourself 1 Kings chapter 11.
Mary's line is totally irrelavent, because 1) Neither of the lineages given in Luke or Matthew is through her, and 2) it wouldn't matter anyway, since the lineage of the king has to go through an unbroken male line.
Where do you see this requirement in the Hebrew Bible?
If it is not there but is some tradition of the Jews, please indicate so.
This message has been edited by jaywill, 01-09-2006 10:45 PM
This message has been edited by jaywill, 01-09-2006 10:46 PM
This message has been edited by jaywill, 01-09-2006 10:46 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by ramoss, posted 01-09-2006 9:27 PM ramoss has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 100 by ramoss, posted 01-10-2006 8:43 AM jaywill has replied

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 98 of 184 (277648)
01-09-2006 11:01 PM
Reply to: Message 96 by One4Truth
01-09-2006 10:06 PM


Re: The Genealogies of Christ
Interesting One4Truth.
Thanks.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by One4Truth, posted 01-09-2006 10:06 PM One4Truth has not replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 99 of 184 (277685)
01-10-2006 2:33 AM
Reply to: Message 96 by One4Truth
01-09-2006 10:06 PM


Re: The Genealogies of Christ
Actually it's quite shallow. While they rightly reject the notion that Luke was presenting Mary's genealogy they present no examples of this supposed flexibility of Hebrew genealogies. They don't present a single case of two differing genealogies where we know that adoption or a levirate marriage provides the solution.
So it's all just speculation intended to explain away the differences in the genealogies.9

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 Message 96 by One4Truth, posted 01-09-2006 10:06 PM One4Truth has not replied

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ramoss
Member (Idle past 611 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 100 of 184 (277707)
01-10-2006 8:43 AM
Reply to: Message 97 by jaywill
01-09-2006 10:43 PM


Re: The Limitation of Solomon
Why, I gave you that, several times.
The fact you refuse to acknowledge it is totally besides the point.
The 'counter arguements' you gave do not counter the passages I gave for that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 97 by jaywill, posted 01-09-2006 10:43 PM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 102 by jaywill, posted 01-10-2006 10:08 AM ramoss has replied

  
ramoss
Member (Idle past 611 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 101 of 184 (277712)
01-10-2006 9:24 AM
Reply to: Message 99 by PaulK
01-10-2006 2:33 AM


Re: The Genealogies of Christ
Might I point out Numbers 1:20-46, that specifically mention that offspring are counted by 'the houses of their fathers'.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by PaulK, posted 01-10-2006 2:33 AM PaulK has not replied

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 102 of 184 (277719)
01-10-2006 10:08 AM
Reply to: Message 100 by ramoss
01-10-2006 8:43 AM


Re: The Limitation of Solomon
Why, I gave you that, several times.
Just the passages provide again. I have been responding to more than one person here.
Please give them to me once more. Some readers also may have not seen earlier discussion. So re-referencing would be helpful to them if you are right.
This message has been edited by jaywill, 01-10-2006 10:09 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by ramoss, posted 01-10-2006 8:43 AM ramoss has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 103 by ramoss, posted 01-10-2006 10:45 AM jaywill has replied

  
ramoss
Member (Idle past 611 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 103 of 184 (277722)
01-10-2006 10:45 AM
Reply to: Message 102 by jaywill
01-10-2006 10:08 AM


Re: The Limitation of Solomon
I'll give a pointer to them
http://EvC Forum: Why NOT Christ Lineage through Joesph's boodline, Instead of Judah's -->EvC Forum: Why NOT Christ Lineage through Joesph's boodline, Instead of Judah's
This message has been edited by AdminJar, 01-10-2006 09:56 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 102 by jaywill, posted 01-10-2006 10:08 AM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 104 by jaywill, posted 01-10-2006 12:12 PM ramoss has replied

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 104 of 184 (277733)
01-10-2006 12:12 PM
Reply to: Message 103 by ramoss
01-10-2006 10:45 AM


Re: The Limitation of Solomon
Ramoss,
Let me ask you a few questions to help me understand what you are saying:
1.) Is this law of the lineage of the king - unbroken male line something that was torah after this prophecy of God in 1 Chron. 22:9? Or was it torah (law) before that time as well?
2.) Are you saying that the Messiah must be some other male descendent of Solomon beside that which came from the line of Jeconiah?
For example, somewhere in the world now or latter there is a male descendent of Solomon who will be the Messiah?
3.) Please define "unbroken" for me.
Thankyou.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by ramoss, posted 01-10-2006 10:45 AM ramoss has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 105 by ramoss, posted 01-10-2006 1:07 PM jaywill has replied

  
ramoss
Member (Idle past 611 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 105 of 184 (277750)
01-10-2006 1:07 PM
Reply to: Message 104 by jaywill
01-10-2006 12:12 PM


Re: The Limitation of Solomon
1) It was first mentioned in 1 Kings, as far as I know.
2) The belief of those Orthodox Jews who believe the Messiah will come will be decended from David through Solomon , but not from the line of Jeconiah. Some conservative and many Reform Jewish congregation don't believe there is going to be a 'star messiah', but rather a 'messanic age' that should be worked towards. The messiah will be known for the
works he is able to accomplish, such as world peace, getting all the Jews back to Israel, and getting the study of Torah as center of all religions (Pretty tall order there). Until all those tasks are accomplished, the Messiah will not have come.
3)Unbroken means from father to son, without gaps because of no male offspring, and no adoptions. The line will go from father to son to that son to that son .etc etc.. with no interruption of the father/son lineage.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by jaywill, posted 01-10-2006 12:12 PM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 106 by jaywill, posted 01-10-2006 2:13 PM ramoss has not replied

  
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