Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
5 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,808 Year: 3,065/9,624 Month: 910/1,588 Week: 93/223 Day: 4/17 Hour: 1/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Saddam Captured?
DBlevins
Member (Idle past 3775 days)
Posts: 652
From: Puyallup, WA.
Joined: 02-04-2003


Message 1 of 32 (72814)
12-14-2003 6:53 AM


It appears that Saddam might have been captured in Tikrit. I remain skeptical that we did indeed capture him, but BBC news is reporting that it is him. I wonder if this will put a damper on atacks in Iraq and we can get to rebuilding the place for the Iraqis? I hate that we are their but maybe this will help speed up the turn-over to an Iraq self-government? I suspect that we will (US) stay there under the auspicies of "protecting" the oil, for a while.

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by crashfrog, posted 12-14-2003 7:29 AM DBlevins has not replied
 Message 4 by Dan Carroll, posted 12-14-2003 3:55 PM DBlevins has not replied
 Message 6 by MrHambre, posted 12-14-2003 5:19 PM DBlevins has not replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 2 of 32 (72815)
12-14-2003 7:29 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by DBlevins
12-14-2003 6:53 AM


Let's keep in mind that we're talking about one of the Authentic Evil Bad Guys here. His capture is a good thing in itself.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by DBlevins, posted 12-14-2003 6:53 AM DBlevins has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Abshalom, posted 12-14-2003 2:56 PM crashfrog has not replied

Abshalom
Inactive Member


Message 3 of 32 (72855)
12-14-2003 2:56 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by crashfrog
12-14-2003 7:29 AM


The Emperor's New Hat
So, now that Saddam's been captured, de-loused, and strip-searched, what kind of new hat should the hatters of Bagdad fashion for him to wear during his upcoming trials?
Remember the "shoe" insult? What kind or variety of shoes should be refashioned into a headdress for the Royal King of Spades to wear? Should it be the single combat boot worn by an invading Marine or Special Forces troop? Should it be a Kurdish sandal? Or should the Emperor's new headwear consist of a patchwork of various shoe leathers contributed from many sources of his previous subjegation, torture, and murder?
Let's hear it from any member who has an idea. Then let's forward the best suggestion to the fashion bugs in Bagdad so they can make Saddam some new headwear to replace his old school fedora.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by crashfrog, posted 12-14-2003 7:29 AM crashfrog has not replied

Dan Carroll
Inactive Member


Message 4 of 32 (72858)
12-14-2003 3:55 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by DBlevins
12-14-2003 6:53 AM


We've got him in custody, alive and well. Excellent. I hope we put him on very, very public trial.
Hey, nutty little nostalgia thought here... anyone remember back when we wanted to catch Osama bin Laden?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by DBlevins, posted 12-14-2003 6:53 AM DBlevins has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by M82A1, posted 12-15-2003 8:30 AM Dan Carroll has replied

Obi-Dan Pironi
Inactive Junior Member


Message 5 of 32 (72860)
12-14-2003 5:01 PM


Osama bin Who-din?

MrHambre
Member (Idle past 1392 days)
Posts: 1495
From: Framingham, MA, USA
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 6 of 32 (72862)
12-14-2003 5:19 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by DBlevins
12-14-2003 6:53 AM


Okay, I'm as overjoyed as anyone to see ol' Saddam in the dock. But what do you think is going to top the list of demands of every two-bit kidnap-happy son of a prophet from now on?
------------------
The dark nursery of evolution is very dark indeed.
Brad McFall

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by DBlevins, posted 12-14-2003 6:53 AM DBlevins has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by Rei, posted 12-15-2003 3:58 AM MrHambre has not replied

Rei
Member (Idle past 7012 days)
Posts: 1546
From: Iowa City, IA
Joined: 09-03-2003


Message 7 of 32 (72910)
12-15-2003 3:58 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by MrHambre
12-14-2003 5:19 PM


Osama bin Forgotten writes:
1. Polarize the world, creating immense hostility between the west and the middle east; drive America from its traditional allies.
Check!
2. Get rid of the secular regime in Iraq. Replace it with a fundamentalist government dominated by powerful clerics.
Check! (almost there...)
3. Get America and Israel caught in multiple quagmires of resistance in the Middle East that steadily eat away at their strength and resolve.
Check!
Hmm... better make up a new list.
My reactions:
Yeay! Saddam is gone! One less brutal dictator in the world, and it only cost bringing a country into anarchy and ~10,000 civilian lives. Sure, Donald Rumsfeld will have to find someone new to shake hands with, April Glaspie may miss her old invasion partner, and we'll need to find our next brutal dictator to target that's not also an ally of the US (Karmov, you get off easily this time!), but it's worth it! Who'se up for a good game of "What Dictator Who Uses Torture And Oppresses His People Will We End Up With Next?" Yes, yes, I know, we play it every other year, but this time, I'll let you guess first!
On the downside, now Bush can't call the resistance "Saddam Loyalists". Let's take bets on what they'll call them now when they keep on killing US troops:
1) Baath Party loyalists
2) Foreign fighters
3) Terrorists
I'm betting on "all of the above".
And what will the US do with Saddam? We can't send him to the International Criminal Court because, well, we've pretty much sabotaged its existance. We can't try him at home, because he might get off. There would be a lot of dissent if we sent him to Guantamo. No, I'd put my money on:
1) The Iraqi PuppetGoverning Council will make a "request" that they get to try Saddam. They'll set up a nice kangaroo court. Plenty of witnessess will be brought in to bring up sob stories - and every last one of them will be widely televized, with the blessing of Bremer's administration. Then, Saddam will be put to death - all under the auspices of the "Interim" Council.
Anyone else have ideas?
------------------
"Illuminant light,
illuminate me."
[This message has been edited by Rei, 12-15-2003]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by MrHambre, posted 12-14-2003 5:19 PM MrHambre has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by M82A1, posted 12-15-2003 8:54 AM Rei has replied

M82A1
Inactive Member


Message 8 of 32 (72931)
12-15-2003 8:30 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by Dan Carroll
12-14-2003 3:55 PM


quote:
Hey, nutty little nostalgia thought here... anyone remember back when we wanted to catch Osama bin Laden?
We have to focus on the Tagets that we have the jurisdiction to capture.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Dan Carroll, posted 12-14-2003 3:55 PM Dan Carroll has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by Dan Carroll, posted 12-15-2003 9:10 AM M82A1 has not replied

M82A1
Inactive Member


Message 9 of 32 (72934)
12-15-2003 8:54 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by Rei
12-15-2003 3:58 AM


quote:
Yeay! Saddam is gone! One less brutal dictator in the world, and it only cost bringing a country into anarchy and ~10,000 civilian lives.
And how many Innocent lives were lost while Saddam was in power, and Klinton did nothing to stop the killing? How many Innocent lives were lost due to the torture, the rape, the executions? Did you see those video tapes that were discovered?
Tape 1: A man tied up in a chair with electrodes connected to many parts of his body.
Tape 2: A man being wiped with a piece of metal cable (covered in plastic)
Tape 3: Two men in chains go to the gallows.
Tape 4: A naked man is made to sit on a bottle.
Tape 5: A naked man is made to sit on a gas heater.
Tape 6: A man hanging by the feet from a rotating ceiling fan while being beaten.
Tape 7: Torture by fire.
Tape 8: A man tied to an electic heater. His hands and nails burn.
Tape 9: A man branded with hot iron.
Tape 10: The use of solder iron on hands and feet.
Tape 11: Using a hammer to break a nose.
Tape 12: Broken jaws.
Tape 13: A man on a chair while his finger nails are pulled with pliers.
Tape 14: Using a chain saw to amputate limbs.
Tape 15: Pumping air in a mans rectum.
Tape 16: Breaking a mans shoulder blades.
Tape 17: The classic water torture.
Tape 18: A man in a hole full of filth.
Tape 19: A man clubbed on the head and between the legs.
Tape 20: Loud Noise torture.
Tape 21: A man crucified with his ears not hands fastened with nails. He can't sit down for fear of loosing his ears.
Tape 22: Men in airtight room with temperature soaring.
Tape 23: Dentistry without sedation.
Tape 24: The use of nails on hands and finger nails..
Tape 25: Acid on skin.
Tape 26: Dead bodies left to rot in the vicinity of prisoners.
Tape 27: On the use of wild dogs.
Tape 28: Taping the nose to force a man breathe through the mouth.
Tape 28: The use of nails on a mans tongue.
Tape 30: Boiling oil on limbs.
Tape 31: Spraying eyes with insecticides.
Tape 32: Hanging women from their hair while their husbands and children watch.
Tape 33: Rape while the victim's spouse watches.
Tape 34: Hanging a woman by the legs.
Tape 35: Naked Children with hornets stinging them while their parents watch.
Tape 36: Amputating a mans penis with an electric saw.
Tsk tsk, and you didn't want us going in there to try and stop that.
------------------
"The only thing necessary for the Triumph of Evil is for Good Men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Rei, posted 12-15-2003 3:58 AM Rei has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by Silent H, posted 12-15-2003 1:41 PM M82A1 has not replied
 Message 20 by Rei, posted 12-15-2003 2:12 PM M82A1 has not replied

Dan Carroll
Inactive Member


Message 10 of 32 (72935)
12-15-2003 9:10 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by M82A1
12-15-2003 8:30 AM


quote:
We have to focus on the Tagets that we have the jurisdiction to capture.
Really? Then why did we go after Hussein?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by M82A1, posted 12-15-2003 8:30 AM M82A1 has not replied

Prometheus
Inactive Member


Message 11 of 32 (72946)
12-15-2003 10:20 AM


mmm fallen evil
Saddam killed well over 100,000 of his own people how many more would have died if we did nothing.......... he gased the kurds ..... what did we do that was not right.
But yea we got that person........

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by Dan Carroll, posted 12-15-2003 10:33 AM Prometheus has replied
 Message 16 by Silent H, posted 12-15-2003 1:56 PM Prometheus has not replied

Dan Carroll
Inactive Member


Message 12 of 32 (72947)
12-15-2003 10:33 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by Prometheus
12-15-2003 10:20 AM


Re: mmm fallen evil
And, of course, unless we are prepared to police Iraq for the next couple generations, how many more people will die when the government we set up is overthrown by a militant Islamic faction?
Big fat news flash: international politics are not black and white, good vs. evil.
For instance: I really hope Hussein is tried in international courts, so we can all hear where he got the gas to kill the kurds...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Prometheus, posted 12-15-2003 10:20 AM Prometheus has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by Dr Jack, posted 12-15-2003 10:51 AM Dan Carroll has not replied
 Message 14 by Prometheus, posted 12-15-2003 11:28 AM Dan Carroll has not replied

Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.7


Message 13 of 32 (72948)
12-15-2003 10:51 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by Dan Carroll
12-15-2003 10:33 AM


Re: mmm fallen evil
We had nothing to do with that... Nothing at all... Honest, guv, would we lie to you?
(As I understand most of Saddam's chemical and biological capability was produced in Iraq using British technology and expertise).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Dan Carroll, posted 12-15-2003 10:33 AM Dan Carroll has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by Rei, posted 12-15-2003 2:22 PM Dr Jack has not replied

Prometheus
Inactive Member


Message 14 of 32 (72957)
12-15-2003 11:28 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by Dan Carroll
12-15-2003 10:33 AM


Re: mmm fallen evil
I can tell you where he got the GAS THE USA GAVE IT TO HIM
we put him in power we removed him.
and we did police a few nations after WW2 for a few yers

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Dan Carroll, posted 12-15-2003 10:33 AM Dan Carroll has not replied

Silent H
Member (Idle past 5819 days)
Posts: 7405
From: satellite of love
Joined: 12-11-2002


Message 15 of 32 (72977)
12-15-2003 1:41 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by M82A1
12-15-2003 8:54 AM


quote:
And how many Innocent lives were lost while Saddam was in power, and Klinton did nothing to stop the killing?
M82A1, while you make a good case that Saddam Hussein was a brutal dictator, who used horrific methods to punish people, this does not refute Rei's points at all.
For your information, Saddam had been practicing these things back when Donald Rumsfeld was shaking hands with the man over deals for weapons to massacre his own people. Back then Hussein was no different than he was later under "Klinton", but was treated as royalty by "Raygun" (and "Rummy"), and even by "King Bush".
The only thing which changed what our government said about him, was his invasion of another puppet dictatorship we had in our pocket. It is well known that we had essentially given the greenlight to do it too. A trap so we could replace him? Or just to grab more oil control?
Clinton may have stuck to international law with regards to Iraq, but I don't see that as a valid criticism. One might note that even Bush Jr did not do anything with Saddam, until 9-11 and then his failure to get BinLaden and Mullah Omar gave him an excuse.
And I am unsure what you are condemning in those tapes. These exact methods of torture are why we had been "rendering" people to Iraq and Saudi Arabia and other countries with horrible human rights records for revenge, under the veil of getting more information. If you are against this, why are you not criticizing both Bushes, and Reagan for allowing it to happen and continue happening?
Just to be clear, I am not suggesting that this guy was great. If anything this is karma for him. But his evil was propped up by everyone right through Bush Sr. And Bush Jr has simply swapped one group of evil people for another.
Rei can correct me if I am wrong, but I believe she was suggesting that we must move away from using evil men and evil methods in order to get evil men. Our war to get Saddam was a sham which has brought nothing but misery to the Iraqi people so far, and is not guaranteed to improve their lot in life. I guess I am a bit more hopeful than Rei in that I believe there is a chance for something good for the Iraqi people, but I agree with here that what the US is doing is not helping matter at all.
You do know one of our puppet government leaders is a known criminal right? He has already bilked millions from poor people, you think he's not going to do so again?
And do you really believe the torture rooms will be closed, especially if Shiite leaders get their way? And do you really think we'll stop them, if they offer us a place to "render" terrorists we don't want seeing the light of US courtrooms?
I shed no tears for Saddam Hussein. But if your tears for the Iraqis and peace in the world are more than crocodile tears, let's hear your condemnation of Reagan, Rumsfeld, Bush Sr, and now Bush Jr.
------------------
holmes

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by M82A1, posted 12-15-2003 8:54 AM M82A1 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by Minnemooseus, posted 12-15-2003 2:00 PM Silent H has not replied

Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024