Women's Reactions to Rape

observant of intentions is what i meant. so we're saying the same thing.

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Men, by and large, are not beasts, most would probably consider themselves more intelligent than women

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Really? Most would?Damn, we have a long way to go to eliminate patriarchy and the hatred of women, then.

right on

Right. And it is my position that the boy next door would be more inclined to keep his hands to himself if he knew that the odds were every women he encountered was either armed to the teeth or a black-belt martial artist; and either way, wouldn't think twice about putting him down for their safety.If women are more likely to be raped by their male aquaintances, then women need to start viewing their male aquaintances as potential attackers, and be prepared to harm those persons for their own safety. Yeah, that's going to suck for everyone - men and women both. But rape sucks more. What an idiotic thing to say. Because one in three women will be the victim of sexual assault by a man in their lifetime. Clearly, an appreciable fraction of men have a problem controlling their behavior. One in ten? One in twenty? I don't know.All a man can do is not rape women. Clearly, not all men are willing to take that step. In a rape, there's only two people involved who can stop it - the victim and the rapist. Obviously the rapist isn't interested in anything but rape. That leaves the woman, then, as the only person there who can put a stop to it.That's not to say that preventing rape is a woman's responsibility. But there are things women can do to protect themselves, including the use of self-defense techniques or personal firearms.It's far more sexist, though, to tell women that they're too weak to defend themselves and that it's a man's job to do it for them. You know, like you advocate: And, by extension, our property. How disgusting. Men need to do what we can but it's an outrageous act of sexism for you to tell women that they're too weak to protect themselves and that they need a man to do it for them. To the contrary, every time Schraf posts I learn something new about rape, and about women. I welcome her participation in any thread of mine. On the other hand you can take yout sexism somewhere else.

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To the contrary, every time Schraf posts I learn something new about rape, and about women. I welcome her participation in any thread of mine

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Awww, thanks froggy.

1) Imo, society would reflect the fact that men think women are equivalent in intelligence if that was the case
2) I would concede, however, that intelligence might not be the issue.
3) Knowing/thinking someone is not as intelligent as you does not equate with hatred of that person.

It does.

So, your superior solution to rape is pack a gun and learn self-defense? Do you recommend the same solution for children? For minorities? Where does education and accountability come in? If I'm not mistaken there are stiffer punishments for drugs and race related crimes than punishment for crimes against women and children.My post, I guess sexist according to you but who are you anyway?, was supposed to highlight the fact that I think it is a societal problem, NOT a woman's problem strictly! I was trying to get you to suggest REALISTIC alternatives/solutions to the problem...maybe you are unaware of the averages between men and women when muscle mass, height, and overall strength are concerned?...imo your suggestionn would make it more likely that women are killed in addition to be raped. Before you go ballistic, I am not suggesting inaction, I am not suggesting it should be "up to the men", I am simply saying that society, as a whole women AND MEN, are equally responsible for fostering an environment that promotes mutual respect. If you think we have achieved this in our society, as your later post would indicate, then you need to pull your head out!Btw, it's nice that you came to Schraf's defense, but I meant that as a compliment, not as a derogatory or sarcastic comment. I have a good deal of respect for Schraf.

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1) Imo, society would reflect the fact that men think women are equivalent in intelligence if that was the case

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I would say that a majority of men in western society think that women are just as intelligent as men.

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2) I would concede, however, that intelligence might not be the issue.

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That is possible.

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3) Knowing/thinking someone is not as intelligent as you does not equate with hatred of that person.

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True on an individual level, but generalized to over half of the world's people, it becomes bigotry.Bigotry is hatred.

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Btw, it's nice that you came to Schraf's defense, but I meant that as a compliment, not as a derogatory or sarcastic comment. I have a good deal of respect for Schraf.

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Don't worry, Tag, I knew what you meant.Thanks, too.

As I established earlier in this thread, self-defense helps in rape situations. So, yes. The superior solution to what women tend to do now, which is hope it doesn't happen to them, is to prepare for if it does happen to them, and be prepared to resist. By prosecuting the rapists. That's accountability. By convincing women to come forward about rape. That's education.Oh, right. You meant "where's the accountability for all the women who were raped because they were sluts and they were asking for it?" I can't help you with that. As a rule, I don't blame the victims. I didn't say that it was. Men need to stop raping women. Period. But until we can get all men to agree, women need to be prepared for the fact that one in three of them will be raped in her lifetime, probably by a man she thinks she's on friendly terms with. That means self-defense. Look, I already rebutted that nonsense. In the majority of cases where women have resisted their rapists, they felt it improved their situation, not made it worse. Only in a very small number of cases has self-defense or resistance made it worse for the victim.The statistics that prove this are earlier in this thread. I suggest you backtrack and look them up. I agree. Both men and women need to address the problem of rape. Men need to address it by not raping women, or encouraging their peers to do so; women need to do it by resisting rapists and being prepared to defend themselves.But your post suggested - no, flat-out stated - that you don't think women have to do anything but hope it doesn't happen to them. That's sexist, and contrary to your stated belief that both men and women need to face the problem of rape head-on. According to you, all we have to do is make sure that each woman has a big strong man to protect her. Of course, that's the attitude that leaves women critically unprepared to resist violence against their persons in the first place.

I'm a great advocate of all people learning self defence. But this question is wholly irrelevant to rape or violence against women. If we are saying it is a womans duty to defend herself, and that society as a whole is just going to look on complacently, then we are essentially saying that rape is cool if you can get away with it. It's just another case of blaming the victim and claiming it is their own fault (for dressing sexy/not being combative/being in the wrong place at the wrong time).

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By prosecuting the rapists. That's accountability. By convincing women to come forward about rape. That's education.

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Except that last is undermined by the frequency with which rape claims are dismissed. We have a cultural tolerance of rape by men that is the root of the problem - that is what needs to be addressed, not trainging girls in tae kwon do so that WHEN they are attacked they can react.

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I agree. Both men and women need to address the problem of rape. Men need to address it by not raping women, or encouraging their peers to do so; women need to do it by resisting rapists and being prepared to defend themselves.

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Well its kinda difficult to see men encouraging their peers not to do so when we have posts claiming the only thing that deters Johnny next door is his potential victims black belt. The question is why Johnny thinks of women as things that he can take, or sex as a commodity that can be stolen. And it is exactly those sorts of issues that men resist being tackled.

Schrafinator- "And you base this claim upon what evidence?"Perhaps someone could tell me how I can post a link. I was also wondering how you quote.Well heres the site: http://www.menweb.org/throop/falsereport/refbrownm.htmlThe way I found it is simply by typing in "false rape" on google. I clicked the first link on there.
OVER 20% it does not say, although I'm sure there are areas {like where I live at} that are higher, as well as many areas where rape accusations are for the most part very honest.The page clearly sites that the FBI reports 15-20% of unfounded rape claims after extensive investigations. Unfounded meaning it probably did not occur as there is no substantial evidence. The truth is, rape is so horrible that they MAKE SURE to investigate every case throughly. There should be some kind of evidence found from such an event most of the time.
I am not speaking from strong information but rather common sense in that, if most rapes occur from someone the person knows...would not it be fairly easy to find substantial evidence?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I do beleive but I do beleive that rape is the most falsely reported crime, according to the FBI.
Thats the point I was bringing up, sorry if I was slightly statistically innacurate.

No, it's not...that's called trust....something you don't seem to condone. Raising boys in an environment where objectification of women is not tolerated or encouraged would be education and actually foster a legitimate solution. Are you a politician? Because if you aren't, you really should be. Nothing in what I said would indicate what you have blatantly attributed to me in the above statement.Crash, if you can cut the defensiveness for two seconds I would point out that I agree with you that encouraging women to learn self-defense is a good idea, just like the whistles and the mace, BUT I do not agree with carrying guns and lowering your trust further. I am merely arguing that I think education (social and gender) is probably the long term solution to improving this societal blight. I was NOT recommending men as physical protectors, but as supportive and active participants in this problem. I, for one, being a part of this huge world will not stand by and be passive about this issue. Anywho, we've probably reached the end of the discourse.

Yeah, substantial evidence that the victim knows her attacker. If you have zilch connection with any evidence found it is more clear cut, but if it is an issue of rape within a marriage or a boyfriend where there is consensual use of the body as well as the living space the lines become blurred.