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Author Topic:   Noah's Flood and the Geologic Layers (was Noah's shallow sea)
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Message 181 of 219 (86245)
02-14-2004 8:08 AM
Reply to: Message 178 by simple
02-14-2004 4:27 AM


Re: late night research
Hi, Simple!
Like your new avatar!
Please try to stay on topic. If you'd like to discuss chromosomes you could open a new thread over at Free For All.

--Percy
EvC Forum Administrator

This message is a reply to:
 Message 178 by simple, posted 02-14-2004 4:27 AM simple has not replied

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 12995
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 182 of 219 (86246)
02-14-2004 8:15 AM
Reply to: Message 180 by mark24
02-14-2004 4:49 AM


Re: late night research
Mark writes:
Utter ignorant rubbish. Kent Hovind is soooooo full of crap!...you & Kent are hypocrites.
I know it must seem like Hovind's been shown a nitwit about a million times, but perhaps every Creationist is entitled to have Hovind's ideas gently rebutted the first time.
Another thing to consider. One reason Simple has been restricted to non-Main Topic Forums (except for this thread) is because this is a science site, and he isn't really accessible to scientific argument, so you might want to think about whether you really want to spend the time.
Chromosomes are off-topic for this thread, I've requested another thread be opened.
[This message has been edited by Percy, 02-14-2004]

--Percy
EvC Forum Administrator

This message is a reply to:
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alacrity fitzhugh
Member (Idle past 4288 days)
Posts: 194
Joined: 02-10-2004


Message 183 of 219 (86268)
02-14-2004 11:55 AM
Reply to: Message 167 by simple
02-13-2004 12:44 PM


Re: don't need to repeat
brought in from WHERE!the same place that the tooth fairy lives.You really cant be this naive.thats over 2 trillion gallons of water.do you understand any concept of size,age over thousands are the numbers millions and billions plus trillion to high for you to comprehend.If your still in school what grade.if your recieving any form of help then you need to ask someone else.
"It is true one would envision large and plentifull hurricanes with so much water,
not one so far you i just pointed out what the storm would have to be for your myth to have any since of reality
"i dont know why you think anyone is suggesting this was suppose to
be a hurricane in there somewhere covering mountains?certainly not my idea!
genisis chapter 7 17-18"for forty days the rain poured down without stopping.and the water became deeper and deeper,until the boat started floating high above the ground.finally the mighty flood was so deep that even the highest MOUNTAIN PEAKS(simple what is the highest mountain on earth)WERE ALMOST 25FT BELOW THE SURFACE
so now i know you either dont read what you argue for,you only believe what fits your belief and even ignore the facts put in your own book,or as i said before someone else is helping you(incidently i never said that a hurricane did it i showed you what the storm would have to be)
"its buried all over the back yard
you have yet to prove it
i think it would be wise to ask why he did it.so we dont have a repeat of such a thing.with the world "filled with violence"
now if that dont beat all he/she/it murders 99.9% of all live on earth but it is our fault?husband to wife"im sorry i hit you dear but it was your fault you made me do it!there is just as much "violence now as then humans kill humans with so much zeal we now call it the art of war. art?and you still say the proof is there then when confronted an shown there is no proof you bring in faeries and magical water that appears and disappearsYoung man you have no proof you seem to not even know what your own book says.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 167 by simple, posted 02-13-2004 12:44 PM simple has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 184 by simple, posted 02-14-2004 8:48 PM alacrity fitzhugh has replied

  
simple 
Inactive Member


Message 184 of 219 (86326)
02-14-2004 8:48 PM
Reply to: Message 183 by alacrity fitzhugh
02-14-2004 11:55 AM


nothing new under son
for forty days the rain poured down without stopping.and the water became deeper and deeper,until the boat started floating high above the ground.finally the mighty flood was so deep that even the highest MOUNTAIN PEAKS
Well, many people feel (like Walt), that the mountains were much lower in the old earth. I believe they have them no higher than about 4000' (maybe closer to 5, but that's about it). So the Himalayas would have been uplifted if they are right. Regardless, I've never heard anyone claim hurricanes had really anything to do with that. I mentioned hurricanes as probably being in the mix, after God flooded the world.
now if that dont beat all he/she/it murders 99.9% of all live on earth but it is our fault
Yes, they never used capital letters, so now they are fossilized. Seriously though, if you remember Noah getting shikfaced drunk as soon as possible after the global end of life one great year, right after God had to end His original experiment. Here is God, in a not too jovial mood at having had to end man's earthly part of their lives abruptly-and what does He see? He sees something that got Him upset. It seems innocent enough, but apparently God found the behavior of one of Noah's sons serious enough to punish him. The son had 'looked on his father's nakedness', in his drunken sleep, probably 'standing at attention'. This son, one of the few people to survive the old world, apparently got Got upset by carrying over a hangover from the old one. (lustful little look at pops). God didn't want to end His experiment, and if not for those few He rescued, all us billions now would not be here! In effect He saved billions.
there is just as much "violence now as then humans kill humans with so much zeal we now call it the art of war
Jesus told us 'as in the days of Noah, so shall the days-(just before He returns)- be'.!!
when confronted an shown there is no proof
Where's this? You think your post is proof of something?
you have no proof you seem to not even know what your own book says
No, I don't have any proof that I don't even know what my own book says. Why would you think that?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 183 by alacrity fitzhugh, posted 02-14-2004 11:55 AM alacrity fitzhugh has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 187 by IrishRockhound, posted 02-14-2004 9:52 PM simple has replied
 Message 201 by alacrity fitzhugh, posted 02-16-2004 2:08 PM simple has replied

  
simple 
Inactive Member


Message 185 of 219 (86328)
02-14-2004 8:58 PM
Reply to: Message 180 by mark24
02-14-2004 4:49 AM


Re: late night research
IT is also based on the misapprehension that high chromosome number is a goal, it isn't.
I think the fellow's research I posted, (whom you all seem to know), was humorous. Even God has a sense of humour. You need to evolve one. Deep in some chromosone there may lie one just waiting to be released.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 186 by NosyNed, posted 02-14-2004 9:31 PM simple has not replied

  
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8996
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 186 of 219 (86331)
02-14-2004 9:31 PM
Reply to: Message 185 by simple
02-14-2004 8:58 PM


grown up?
How old are you simple?

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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IrishRockhound
Member (Idle past 4435 days)
Posts: 569
From: Ireland
Joined: 05-19-2003


Message 187 of 219 (86334)
02-14-2004 9:52 PM
Reply to: Message 184 by simple
02-14-2004 8:48 PM


Simple - I can prove that the Earth is old and the Flood never happened. You feel like hearing it?
If I go to the trouble of posting something huge, I don't want to see you handwaving it away with "well maybe god just made it look like that". I'm not prepared to spend my time trying to debate with you if that's your attitude.
I also have a question - why should geologists assume that the sedimentary processes we see today are radically different to those in the past?
The Rock Hound

This message is a reply to:
 Message 184 by simple, posted 02-14-2004 8:48 PM simple has replied

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simple 
Inactive Member


Message 188 of 219 (86339)
02-14-2004 11:30 PM
Reply to: Message 187 by IrishRockhound
02-14-2004 9:52 PM


accidental explanation
Can you condense your thoughts on why the flood never happened to the root premises?
why should geologists assume that the sedimentary processes we see today are radically different to those in the past
Because they don't explain what happened well. I was going to close the thread, but go ahead and give us a few sentences on your conclusions.
"If the solar system was brought about by an accidental collision, then the appearance of organic life on this planet was also an accident, and the whole evolution of man was an accident too. If so, then all our present thoughts are mere accidents-the accidental by-product of the movement of atoms. And this holds for the thoughts of the materialists and astronomers as well as for anyone else's. But if their thoughts-i.e., of materialism and astronomy-are merely accidental by-products, why should we believe them to be true? I see no reason for believing that one accident should be able to give me a correct account of all the other accidents. It's like expecting that the accidental shape taken by the splash when you upset a milk jug should give you a correct account of how the jug was made and why it was upset."
-- C.S. Lewis (1898-1963), British writer and critic

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Replies to this message:
 Message 189 by edge, posted 02-15-2004 10:06 AM simple has replied

  
edge
Member (Idle past 1705 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 189 of 219 (86410)
02-15-2004 10:06 AM
Reply to: Message 188 by simple
02-14-2004 11:30 PM


Re: accidental explanation
quote:
why should geologists assume that the sedimentary processes we see today are radically different to those in the past
Because they don't explain what happened well. I was going to close the thread, but go ahead and give us a few sentences on your conclusions.
Vague assertions won't cut it here, simple. We cannot respond to them in any meaningful way. How do they not 'explain what happened', and what would be an example.

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 Message 188 by simple, posted 02-14-2004 11:30 PM simple has replied

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 190 of 219 (86412)
02-15-2004 10:15 AM
Reply to: Message 171 by Loudmouth
02-13-2004 3:18 PM


Re: Geology explained
Loudmouth writes:
I don't take texts written by man as ultimate truth. I look at evidence that no man has control over, such as the rocks. Even if the Bible were God inspired, no one is claiming that God wrote it directly. So you still don't have a book written by God.
I may point out that the issue with the Bible as a valid source of truth and knowledge rests on the source of the wisdom. Here we have two possibilities:
1) Human authors wrote the book. This is certain. The book did not drop as a scroll from the sky. However, as to the source of the authors inspiration, we have two options.
a) Their own minds
b) Divine Inspiration
Actually, to be fair, we could add a third option:
c) Alien wisdom or fallibility, as the case may be.

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simple 
Inactive Member


Message 191 of 219 (86497)
02-15-2004 7:03 PM
Reply to: Message 189 by edge
02-15-2004 10:06 AM


Re: accidental explanation
How do they not 'explain what happened'
Today's processes, as a whole do not explain how things worked in the old, or pre flood world. Unless we assume the 2 worlds were the same.

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 Message 189 by edge, posted 02-15-2004 10:06 AM edge has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 193 by Joe Meert, posted 02-15-2004 8:21 PM simple has replied

  
simple 
Inactive Member


Message 192 of 219 (86499)
02-15-2004 7:13 PM
Reply to: Message 190 by Phat
02-15-2004 10:15 AM


phatboys options grow
Actually, to be fair, we could add a third option:
c) Alien wisdom or fallibility, as the case may be.
The most important part of the bible, the words of Jesus were given directly! And recorded by direct witnesses 6 ways from Sunday! Straight from the horse's mouth, as it were. Then, just to make sure there was no mistake, He rose from the dead.
As far as your hypothesis, we forgot an imporant one for old age believers. The paper mutated from trees, developing stains, which, after millions of years formed into actual words, all punctuated perfectly by some fluke of nature. Then some metals in rocks were struck by a comet, which melted and scattered them, as they fell from the air they assembled into a delivery truck, complete with a printing press in back. The rest was fairly easy, except the long wait for the flys who were in the truck, who had to wait millions of years to turn into men, and learn to read.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 190 by Phat, posted 02-15-2004 10:15 AM Phat has not replied

  
Joe Meert
Member (Idle past 5679 days)
Posts: 913
From: Gainesville
Joined: 03-02-2002


Message 193 of 219 (86516)
02-15-2004 8:21 PM
Reply to: Message 191 by simple
02-15-2004 7:03 PM


Re: accidental explanation
quote:
Today's processes, as a whole do not explain how things worked in the old, or pre flood world. Unless we assume the 2 worlds were the same.
JM: This assumes there was a 'pre-flood' world. This argument from you has gotten so circular that I'm afraid you've even forgotten what you are saying. In order to have a 'pre-flood' world, there must have been a flood, yet, we've gotten nothing but a suite of vague assertions that a flood happened and no evidence to support it. Everytime someone asks a a question, you make some unsupported vague assertion. No evidence, just some scenario you or Walt Brown has invented without any supporting data. I have also reached the conclusion that you are probably a teenage troll.
Cheers
Joe Meert

This message is a reply to:
 Message 191 by simple, posted 02-15-2004 7:03 PM simple has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 205 by simple, posted 02-16-2004 4:18 PM Joe Meert has replied

  
Joe Meert
Member (Idle past 5679 days)
Posts: 913
From: Gainesville
Joined: 03-02-2002


Message 194 of 219 (86519)
02-15-2004 8:22 PM
Reply to: Message 186 by NosyNed
02-14-2004 9:31 PM


Re: grown up?
quote:
How old are you simple?
JM: I'm betting mid teens.
Cheers
Joe Meert

This message is a reply to:
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IrishRockhound
Member (Idle past 4435 days)
Posts: 569
From: Ireland
Joined: 05-19-2003


Message 195 of 219 (86625)
02-16-2004 8:09 AM


So much to get to, so little time...
Ok, here's the basis of my argument: So far, we have no reason to assume that geological processes in the past were radically different to those that we see today. We also find that there is sufficient evidence to suggest that those processes were, in fact, quite similar if not identical - evidence left in sedimentary structures, volcanic layers, etc. that is very close to what we observe today.
Knowing this, we look at geological formations and are able to recognise the different environments of deposition - i.e. the different conditions under which the sediment was laid down and altered. In Ireland, we see a huge variety of environments changing over time, representing (in conventional geology) millions of years of climate change.
In flood 'geology', this must have occurred in less than a year, under very specific conditions. Even if the processes were accelerated to incredible speeds (which we also have no reason to assume) they would not produce the geological formations seen today. There are simply too many changing environments, not to mention later deformation and faulting that juxtaposed the beds.
In summary, one year is just not enough. There are too many unreasonable assumptions in flood 'geology', starting with the cast-iron premise that the flood MUST have happened. This assumption has no basis, unlike the assumption of uniformity that conventional geology makes about past geological processes.
quote:
Today's processes, as a whole do not explain how things worked in the old, or pre flood world. Unless we assume the 2 worlds were the same.
Simple, there is no evidence of a pre-flood world, or of a flood for that matter. Where is the boundary? What formations should I be looking at? Can creationists pinpoint ANYWHERE in the world where the flood boundary is seen?
quote:
As far as your hypothesis, we forgot an imporant one for old age believers.
That's "Theory", not hypothesis. Get your facts straight, no matter how rare they might be.
The Rock Hound

Replies to this message:
 Message 196 by Phat, posted 02-16-2004 9:25 AM IrishRockhound has replied
 Message 207 by simple, posted 02-16-2004 5:07 PM IrishRockhound has replied

  
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