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Member (Idle past 4871 days) Posts: 624 From: Pittsburgh, PA, USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Morality and God | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Peter Member (Idle past 1506 days) Posts: 2161 From: Cambridgeshire, UK. Joined: |
quote: That's not true if the entity is an omnipotent being who createdeverything to be the way it is. Perhaps my wording was incorrect/unclear on that. All I was trying to do was state the premise as I understand it.That is, that objective morality exists because the creator made it so. quote: No, it doesn't make it irrelevant. If, in principle, anythingcan be considered moral, then morality cannot be objective. If even one person considers an act to be acceptable that othersdo not then there is no objective morality. The rest of your post actually agrees with my position, that isall morality is purely subjective.
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Smitty500 Inactive Member |
Here's the thing.
Are any of us perfect? NO. Should we be trying to get better? Yes God has not set up the law to condemn but to show the path to heaven(to show the need for Jesus Christs sacrifice.)God wants your heart right with him, he doesn't care how you live. He wants your heart close to him and when your heart is close to him, then you will read the Word and be subject to a transformation and renewing of your mind. In effect the transforming and renewing of your mind should lead to a higher moral code and a closer relationship with God. And by the way loves you whether you want him to or not. god bless [This message has been edited by Smitty500, 02-03-2004]
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1494 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
God has not set up the law to condemn but to show the path to heaven Ah, so it is works that get you into heaven. I've been wondering about that.
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Peter Member (Idle past 1506 days) Posts: 2161 From: Cambridgeshire, UK. Joined: |
Q: Are we perfect?
A: Depends entirely on your criterion for perfection. Example: Some of us are perfect for surviving long enough to breed.Many of us are perfect for drinking lots of alchohol and then falling over a lot. Q: Should we be trying to get better? A: In whose eyes? Example: Mr X's father is a mobster, and is very disappointed in Mr Xbecause, at the age of 37 he has never comitted a major criminal offense, and has consitently failed to 'rub out' people who cross him. To get better, in Mr X snr's eyes, Mr X must knock over abank or armoured car, and wack five of his enemies. quote: You cannot actually know any of this.
quote: I got nothing against God so long as he's got nothingagainst me
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RingoKid Inactive Member |
Nothing is perfect
in the space where nothing exists will one find perfection the perfect nothing seek accept nothing as factquestion everything determine yor own truth defineyour own reality God is a nihilist, devoid of morals who destroyed a perfect nothing to create an imperfect universe... Nature is aught but the will of god andthere is nothing outside of nature
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Smitty500 Inactive Member |
When I said that I was refering to the fact that the no human can keep the law to perfection. Assuming this is true(I believe it is) and to be with God you have to keep the Law, then one realizes you have to have something to make up for that lack of keeping the law. This "coverer of the gap" so to speak is the grace of Jesus Christ
Sorry about that, it was a very vague and misleading statement.
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Smitty500 Inactive Member |
It doesn't matter what my criterion is, it matters what God's criterion is. Psalms 1:6 "For teh Lord watches over the way of the righteous, but the way of the wicked will perish."
When I referred to trying to get better it obviously refers to God's eyes. That is a lame attempt at diverting something. Do you honestly think that one should not attempt to get better at something? Come on. Sure you don't have to but it definately leads to a healthier self-esteem. John 3:15-17that everyone who belives in him may have eternal life. For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world but to save the world though him." G2g right now but will explain the rest in a bit.
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Phat Member Posts: 18343 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
The fact that people have moral feelings is evidence that God exists.
Phatboy writes:
I would assert that moral values is a better word. Values come about through comparative ideas. The Ten Commandments was a set of ideas which became values.
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Rrhain Member Posts: 6351 From: San Diego, CA, USA Joined: |
Phatboy writes:
quote: But the mere existence of atheists proves this claim wrong. Or are you claiming that atheists don't have morals? Rrhain WWJD? JWRTFM!
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AdminBrian Inactive Member |
Welcome back Rrhain, nice to see you again.
AdminBrian.
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1494 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
Or are you claiming that atheists don't have morals? Is it possible that atheists have morals, but they mistakenly attribute them to their own ingenuity rather than to God's divine inspiration or design? On the other hand... is the fact that some people don't have morals evidence that God doesn't exist?
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Rrhain Member Posts: 6351 From: San Diego, CA, USA Joined: |
AdminBrian,
Joys of life. New job so my life has been mostly work, sleep, work, sleep of late. Rrhain WWJD? JWRTFM!
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Rrhain Member Posts: 6351 From: San Diego, CA, USA Joined: |
crashfrog responds to me:
quote:quote: Of course, but what's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. If people with god having morals is proof of their god, then people without god having morals is proof that there is no god. The problem, as I'm sure you're aware, is the problem of unstated assumptions. It is merely asserted that morality has to come from god without any justification as to why this is so. And you bring up yet another example showing why the assumption fails:
quote: There are serious problems with the claim that morality and god go together. Rrhain WWJD? JWRTFM!
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Phat Member Posts: 18343 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Rrhain writes: Well, if morality is a set of values, I as a Christian see that society has basic values which are changing from year to year. The fundamentalist conservatives claim that we are literally turning into Sodom and Gommorah, and that morality is sliding down a slippery slope. My problem with them is that they propose a virtual legislation of morality. We do not need any absolutist Monarchs in this day and age! I personally believe that an atheist is infused with the same basic internal wiring and conscience as the rest of us...self professed believers, skeptics, scientists, and strippers. I feel in my heart that I was infused with a deeper awareness of who God was after I "got saved". This reality in and of itself did not make me a better person. Thus, by the same token, Christians have no better morality than anyone else. There are serious problems with the claim that morality and god go together.To confirm this, look at the Divorce statistics. The church mirrors the culture. While I believe that a remnant...a small number within the Church are imparted with Gods unchanging wisdom, I do not elevate these people to a higher place. That is not my job.
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Peter Member (Idle past 1506 days) Posts: 2161 From: Cambridgeshire, UK. Joined: |
So YOUR criterion for perfection is 'That which
God would consider perfection.' And your answer to the question is 'Morality is that whichGod considers to be good/bad'. i.e. objective morality exists. So regardless of what WE deem to be morally acceptable,there is an overriding set of moral codes.
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