Harm in Homosexuality?

You can talk yourself into believing anything. This whole thread is a joke. There is nobody that is capable of giving you (no matter how good and reliable the source) an answer that will satisfy your question. It is a question with no correct answer (for the asking party). From reading these messages it sounds like to me that anyone who is liberal minded sexually is for homosexuality and anyone attempting to give a reason or theory to why homosexuality is wrong or harmfull is a homophobe or bigot or narrowminded or prood. You don't want an answer to this question, and if on comes your way you won't except it. So why ask the question if you don't believe there is an answer worth believing? And why doesn't someone take the time here to enlighten me with why homosexuality is good for us. Why added health benefit does homosexuality give us. A high colonic? Some waste management? Anone have answer for me? -Z

Your rant leads me to believe that you do not have a single reason why homosexuality is harmful. If you do, please present it, and we'll discuss it.Or was there a point that was already brought up in the thread that you think we dismissed to readily and you'd like to defend?

It would appear he is hinting that anal intercourse is a harm of homosexuality. It seems he is somewhat naive.

Why don't we start with what good comes from homosexuality. Health and emotional and social...etc. Can you give me one?

Zachariah writes:

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And why doesn't someone take the time here to enlighten me with why homosexuality is good for us.

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Because it is obvious. It brings joy and happiness to the world. All you have to do is look at the gay people and see that they are, well, gay.Why on earth would anybody want to stop something so beautiful?

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Why added health benefit does homosexuality give us.

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Because we are social animals who do better as a society when the individuals within that society are happy.Homosexuality brings happiness and joy to society. Why would you want to stop it? Are you anti-social?

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Anone have answer for me?

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Of course. You don't like it, but of course.Then again, you're not looking at the problem correctly. That homosexuality is a good thing is the default assumption. It is your burden of proof to show why it isn't. If you cannot come up with a reason, then we are left with our default assumption that it is good.

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Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

Will you continue to guess at what my idiologies are Ned? Or do you have a question for me. Anal intercourse harmfull? I say, no. If it is the only method of intercourse for prolonged time. I say, yes. We have gone over this before, in another thread. The good folks in that thread were quick to dismiss all the works I cited (as usuall) without much more reason than it doesn't agree with there belief. They had no reason why the works cited were not correct or trustworthy, just wrong. That is why (pink sasq) I said what I said. I see noone here that is willing to change there mind or at least open it to another view. I've done it on a couple of occations. Ned, you can attest to that. When it came to the age of earth I started out saying there is no way there earth is more than 20,000 or so years. When I saw the time doesn't exist as we know it between the time the earth is created to the time the light was created then I saw that that could have been a long time between. There has been other times as well. So is anyone here willing to open there minds to the idea that homosexuality is harmfull to society? -Z

That would be off-topic. If you want to start a seperate topic, do so.Again, your response leads me to believe you can't come up with anything harmful about homosexuality. If you can, by all means come out and state it so we can have an actual discussion.

I agree completely... Let's review, shall we? Message 22:

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I ask those who think that homosexuality is immoral: How can a characteristic determined by genetics be immoral?

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Message 24:

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First off let me say that I think there is nothing immoral about homosexuality, I think that is clear from my posts. BUT I do not agree that the cause of a temptation has any bearing on the morality of ones actions. [emphasis added]

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Let's say, for the sake of argumnet, that pedophilia is determined by genetics in the same way. Now, that may or may not make pedophilic feelings moraly relevant, but pedophilic BEHAVIOR is still very, very wrong.

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The cause of the temptation is irrelivant, actions are right or wrong depending on the circumstances and the individuals harmed, not the source of the desire. [emphasis added]

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I don't see how you could interpret this as saying that homosexuality is as bad as pedophilia. He wasn't even talking about homosexuality at the time. It seems clear to me that he was simply saying that a behavior can be immoral even if one is genetically inclined to act in that way - in other words, genetics shouldn't even be considered in judging the morality of the behavior. Instead, the outcome of it for all people involved should be. I wonder, if he had said anything else instead of pedophilia (say, a predisposition to violent rage), would people have reacted the same way? Perhaps it's that people are too used to the association of the two by those who oppose homosexuality.

Did you take the time to read pink sasq post #59 about how 60% (I think it was) of the gays in the study were suicidal. Yeah, one happy bunch of people. to whom? Are you actually speaking for me and the rest of the world? You are arrogant enough to actually believ that because you believe homosexuality is good that everyone else does? -Z

Perhaps if you gave more than vague comments you would get somewhere. Either present an actual argument or stop whining.

Zachariah responds to NosyNed:

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If it is the only method of intercourse for prolonged time. I say, yes.

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And your evidence of this is what, precisely? Please note, Paul Cameron is not a valid source. There is no such thing as "gay bowel syndrome."

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So is anyone here willing to open there minds to the idea that homosexuality is harmfull to society?

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Only if you manage to come up with evidence that it is. The default assumption is that it is highly beneficial to society. After all, it brings joy and happiness to society and society functions better when its members are happy.It is your burden of proof to show that homosexuality doesn't actually do that.

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Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

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Why don't we start with what good comes from homosexuality. Health and emotional and social...etc. Can you give me one?

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That's not really necessary, although see Message 65 if you feel they are. Let's just say, hypothetically, that there was no good. As long as no harm came from it, either, what makes it immoral? Absence of good is not the same as evil.No, the question is, outside of a biblical viewpoint, what makes homosexuality or homosexual acts inherently evil? What harm comes from them, to the people involved or society in general? Why, from God's point of view (if you believe the Bible speaks against it), is it something that needs to be banned?Or is it just another example of wearing clothes made from two threads?If you cannot come up with an answer that has no religious basis, there is no reason that homosexuals should not be given full equality in a free, democratic society that separates church from state in matters of law.

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Did you take the time to read pink sasq post #59 about how 60% (I think it was) of the gays in the study were suicidal. Yeah, one happy bunch of people.

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Even if this were true (and I'm skeptical, given the high percentage - but I'm too tired for research on it now, so that will have to wait until tomorrow), don't you think that part of the cause of those feelings might be the way society reacts to homosexuality, rather than the homosexuality itself?{Added in edit: I just noticed pink sasquatch's response along the same lines, despite reading through the thread before (yes, I'm that tired. )... So in response to Message 61, you still haven't addressed the possibility, Zachariah, instead dodging it with... well, with the accusation of the accusation of homophobia. Think of it - you're told everyday that the life you're living is wrong, that you will be sent to hell for being who you are instead of suppressing your feelings and living a lie. Surely you must recognize that this would have an effect on people.}This message has been edited by Morte, 11-15-2004 02:16 AM

Zachariah responds to me:

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Did you take the time to read pink sasq post #59 about how 60% (I think it was) of the gays in the study were suicidal.

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Yes, I know that.You apparently forgot to continue on reading where it showed that the problem was not being gay but rather the homophobic society around gay people.You seem to be saying that it is the fault of the person who was shot in the head for having a skull capable of being penetrated by bullets instead of the person pulling the trigger.

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obvious

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to whom?

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As many of my professors in college would say, "It is obvious to all but the most casual observer." I would change that to read, "...all but the most obstinate observer."Go to your local gay pride festival. Do those people look unhappy to you? They're in a loving, supportive environment where people aren't condemning them for who they are. Are you seriously claiming that this is some example of self-hatred and depression?

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Are you actually speaking for me and the rest of the world?

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Yes. Just because you insist that 2 + 2 = 5, that doesn't mean you're right. Therefore, your judgement is cast aside by mine since mine is based upon reality.Do you seriously think you are capable of telling gay people how they really feel?

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You are arrogant enough to actually believ that because you believe homosexuality is good that everyone else does?

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Your opinion about whether or not gay people are happy does not count because you are not gay. Only the opinion of gay people count when it comes to determining if gay people are happy. And if you listen to gay people, they are happy and fulfilled in their relationships with other gay people. When they are in loving, supportive environments and do not have to deal with homophobia surrounding them, they are fully productive members of society. Things only become a problem when those who cannot handle people being happy start sticking their noses where they don't belong and attempt to destroy what god has created.Again, you seem to be saying that it is the fault of the person who was shot in the head for having a skull capable of being penetrated by a bullet rather than the fault of the person pulling the trigger.When you rain on someone's parade, how is their bad mood anything other than your fault?Think about it...how good of a parent can you be when you are constantly having to fight to retain custody of your children? How good of an employee can you be if you are constantly worried about being fired if your boss finds out? How good of a neighbor can you be when you are constantly worried about having your property vandalized or being evicted? How productive a member of society can you be when you are constantly under threat of being shot at simply for holding hands with someone you love while walking down the street?How on earth is it gay people's fault when you're the one with the psychotic obsession?

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Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

Okay, I believe that socially homosexuality, AMONG OTHERTHINGS (ie... broken heterosexual homes, abusive homes and others of the like) adds to problems we see today. I believe (and studies have shown) that families with a mother and a father spawn children with less emotional problems. Families without a father are more prone to violence (goto fathermag.com). I know, then 2 fathers are better than one? One has to pick up the mother role and men don't have the same working instincts of mothering as women do. You can look at the problems we have today. There is no family values anymore. Homosexuality isn't the answer it's part of the problem. I think the bigger problem is the Bisexual hipness that is going on today. Porn has become trendy and so has bisexuality. Are these people gay...I don't believe they truly are. Look at Britney Spears and Christina Agulerra (?)[spelling] with Madonna. Doing a little lesbo lip lock on stage to better there careers. Give me a break. So when I see your stat on the "heterosexual" +AIDS stats I say its because of alot of stupid young jerkoffs trying to act like the people they see on t.v. That is a problem to me. When there are pro-gay groups giving talks at schools about how to fist each other with MY tax dollars like they did at Tufts University (888webtoday.com [Dr. James Dobson])then that is a harm to me. -Z