Atheist Frendly Q&A

Absolutely correct. Similarly, any claim of wiping out folk in the name of Justice or Consistency are equally ludicrous.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

no. and to say they did is a gross misunderstand of the text. the list of commandments exactly mirrors a type of treaty commonly used in ancient mesopotamia, between a greater power and a lesser state, called a suzerainty. in this case, the greater power is god, and the lesser state is israel.suzertainties follow this pattern:
1. identification of the greater power:

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I [am] the LORD thy God

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2. list of good things the greater has done for the lesser, neccessitating compliance. (ie: i conquered you, and let you live)

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which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

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3. list of terms the lesser power owes in exchange.

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Thou shalt have no other gods before me. [etc]

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the terms are of course hinged on the conditions, even if the suzertainty doesn't explicitly state it, because that is the kind of agreement it is. is this things didn't happen, the agreement would never have been made.so the commandments had to have been made, and delivered, and hinged on the fact of the exodus, and expressly directed at ben'israel. no, what you mean is morality. here's the shocker: morality is independent of the law. the tree of knowledge was the birth of morality in the human race. there is good and evil before moses. i would not call the heart more permanent than stone.This message has been edited by Arachnophilia, 03-11-2005 03:45 AM

I'm not sure whether you really want to discuss the question of Evil or not. If you do, please let me know. It is a major theological issue and one that comes up frequently in discussions here between Atheists and Theists.edited by jar to improve subtitle.This message has been edited by jar, 03-11-2005 03:08 AM

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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An appeal to self defense as a rationale for an act of a god is inane. If your god exists and is as you think he is, it is impossible for him to engage in an act of self defense, since he can in no way be threatened.

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Perhaps it is - until you look at the meaning of self-defense.What does it mean to you? Let me start with guessing that it means defending yourself, which includes all that is dear to you, possibly all the way up to this whole world.Let me threaten your child, for instance, and go from there.You threaten God's property, you threaten him, like throwing a rock into the water and watching the circles.

OK!I don't engage in circular discussion and believe that is what Paul meant by debate in Romans 1:29, and is to be avoided."Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,"Thank you for your effort, I appreciate it much.*bold does not work without a 'b'This message has been edited by PecosGeorge, 03-11-2005 07:56 AM

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mikehager writes:

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Pecos George writes:

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...and should he not stop evil?

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Yes, he really should, if he exists. Might you give some suggestion as to when he is going to start?

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I'm not sure whether you really want to discuss the question of Evil or not. If you do, please let me know. It is a major theological issue and one that comes up frequently in discussions here between Atheists and Theists.

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I'm sure you feel the same way I do about how evil is stopped all the time, to a degree, or there would be nothing left of us at all.What is holding back the winds of strife?And when evil will be stopped completely, which it will, the fireworks will be astounding. More perilous times shall come, more evil.I think a thread on 'evil' will reveal some interesting opinions on what, exactly, that is.
God's blessings to you.

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An appeal to self defense as a rationale for an act of a god is inane. If your god exists and is as you think he is, it is impossible for him to engage in an act of self defense, since he can in no way be threatened.

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Absolutely correct. Similarly, any claim of wiping out folk in the name of Justice or Consistency are equally ludicrous.

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Are you sure about that? The implications are far-reaching. It would eliminate any need for effort to comply with God's requirements and do as we wish.When God defends his children, he defends himself, just like you do when you defend yours, or anything that belongs to you.Wiping out the folks in the OT, or asking to have them wiped out by his operatives, was an act of self-defense since he knew what would happen if they were allowed to remain, and what he knew would happen, did happen, a disobedient Israel quickly falling into idolatry shows this to be so.
Examples of making an end to evil. We shall wait for the rest of the story.

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I wouldn't go around asking...... at least, I don't think I want to know

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If the Old Testament is any indication on where and who God starts to pour out wrath, I'm guessing that North America (U.S. and Canada, I won't speak for Mexico) will probably be the first to go.

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Edited because I accidently posted before I finished thinking.

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I would include India and China, just for how they deal with unwanted girl-babies, before and after birth. 25 million in India alone.
Google 'Matrubhoomi', a movie made in India based on the subject and a story written on it.
This is an aside. It weighs so heavily on my mind and causes me great sorrow, so I draw attention to it whenever possible.

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I would include India and China, just for how they deal with unwanted girl-babies, before and after birth. 25 million in India alone.

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Makes you wonder why the world doesn't work to provide family planning education, raise the status of women everywhere to be equal to men, and make birth control free and available to everyone, doesn't it?

Absolutely sure. So you believe that it says "Love GOD and Love others as you love yourself or else"? Who is not his child?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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Who is not his child?

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Ah, yes! Wanna ask around? Understand what you mean, I hope you understood what I meant and why God is a martial arts expert.

I was looking at the meaning of self defense. You, it seems, are not. Defending your child, while an essential act should the need arise and one that rightly rouses the most benevolent of people to unparralelled levels of ferocity, is not self defense.Self defense... defense of the self. A god, by your definition (which I must admit is inferred) is incapable of personal danger and so is inherently incapable of an act of self defense. Defense of others or property is not self defense.

I believe I understand but if so, I disagree. It might be useful in this thread for us to discuss the issue of GOD directed, condoned or performed violence.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Perhaps the abstraction is too great and I am not concerned with it.The following may be a better example of God's self-defense. It deals with Lucifer's decision to overthrow the government of heaven.

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Revelation 12:7-10 A supernatural battle occurs between the Angels of God and the Fallen Angels of Satan:

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7 And there was war in Heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the Dragon; and the Dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in Heaven.
9 And the Great Dragon was cast out, that Old Serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the Earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in Heaven, 'Now is come Salvation, and Strength, and the Kingdom of our God, and the Power of His Christ: for the Accuser of our Brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God Day and Night.'

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Additionally after checking my trusted Merriam-Webster :

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One entry found for self-defense.
Entry Word: self-defense
Function: noun
Text: an act, instance, or means of defending oneself, one's property, or a close relative
Synonyms self-protection
Related Word self-preservation

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I find circular discussion distasteful and there is an admonition against it in Romans 1:29. And this discussion has become circular.This message has been edited by PecosGeorge, 03-11-2005 14:57 AM

Are we to understand that you are, at least to some extent, a believer in the Manichean heresy?The character "Satan" is powerful enough in his own right to actually threaten your god? Wouldn't that make "God" something less then omnipotent?The myth you quote is more one of putting down a rebellion so as to maintain control rather then an act of self defense. If Satan had confronted God with some weapon or capacity to injure or kill God and God did a number on his attacker, that would be self defense. Can you see the difference.SELF defense is the term. Not just defense.