Evolution=Bad Science Fiction (lack of transitionals)

I'm talking about the fact that fossils don't show heredity, or the movement or development of populations.All a fossil shows is a dead organism. It's like a snapshot, a still picture. You have to infer movement or change in populations, in the same way you have to infer movement from still trip photos. Even a picture of your car driving down the road doesn't actually show movement.Punk eek and rare fossilization are a part of that, but mostly what I'm talking about is how we go from a static fossil record to an inference of change throughout time.

Oh you certainly do see the ad hom but just too ignorant to admit it. All you have provided thus far are outright lies and bending of simple scientific fact by stating taht there are transitional fossils in existence.At the same time all you did was provide a link to a website yourself that in itself has been proven wrong time and time again. And all you have parroted thus far is lies from the talk origins website and call the scientists over at true origins liars.
All of what you have given thus far is a giant appeal to authority.

Now thats what I call a whale of a fantasy(wink wink)http://www.trueorigin.org/ng_whales01.asp
edited out a HUGE cut and paste from the above mentioned link
Laser, if you cannot come up with an argument in your own words then why bother posting? Huge cut and pastes are against Forum Guidelines. Please reread them and pay particular attention to #10 - The Queen[This message has been edited by AdminAsgara, 04-29-2004]

Ok, what you are saying makes sense. I agree that if evolution had happened, the pathways it took are clear. The evolution model predicts a string of dots leading from one to one another.
The creation model predicts that there would be a wide variety of creatures, ranging from simple to complex. If you have a huge group of objects varying in complexity, it is easy sort them from simple to complex. From there you have another string of dots.Since both models predict that there would be a "string of dots", having a string of dots is not enough to decide between the two.We need more than just evidence of the dots, we need evidence of the lines. You said:

quote:

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We can show you the dots. But the fact that you refuse to connect them...

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I may be misunderstanding this, but it seems like you are implying that there are no lines (if there were lines, the dots would be connected, and I would not need to connect them)
The presence of lines would be the only evidence for evolution, but since there are no lines (which both you and Hunt say), there is no evidence for evolution.

This is your second breach of forum guidelines. In this case:
3) Respect for others is the rule here. There are a number of possibilities here:
1) Crash may actually not understand where you preceive an ad-hominem attack.
It is easy for you to make this clear by pointing it out. At that point Crash would be expected to apologize.2)You may not know what an ad-hominum is.
It will be helpful for you to understand the difference between an ad-hominem fallacy, an overly strongly stated attack on the position and something which is just an insult (as yours above is).3)None of those things mentioned in point 2 occured but you're unwilling to support your assertion.4)Crash may have used a careless method of pointing out how silly your argument is in light of the real theory of evolution. Sometimes a truely silly example can be, perhaps, fairly answered with a flippent remark.You have an opportunity to set the record straight. Please, do not continue with the approach you have adopted to date.In the meantime, I do think that we should all get back to the issue of transitionals which JT is valiently trying to.

Out of curiosity LL, do you consider the author of that cut'n'paste to be reliable? You do realise he's a fundamentalist, creationist Islamic, don't you?And AdminAsgara has jsut beaten me to the punch about copying material without adding any original comment of your own.

Tyical radical left garbage being exuded by a typical atheist that cannot exude an iota of honesty.
BFD,dump me in the killfile bin you leftist piece of filth.
Doesnt strenghten your proposition one iota does it.

But the two models don't predict the same pattern of dots. Nor do they supply the same quantitative predictions. There are lines. We don't see the actual movement (as we would in a motion picture). But we have "time stamps" on the "dots".In Crash's trip across America analogy ( I don't like using analogies but let's see how it goes) the addtional information that is available is on the snapshots as a date/time stamp. Now we can, to some degree, determine the "velocity". We can be more sure that the trip was in one direction and that the times of the photos are matched to the geographic relationship.In the case of the transitionals so far under discussion we have both homonid and whale fossils that are arranged in both their temporal relationships and their morphological closeness in a manner which agrees with the evolutionary model.The model that suggest everything being created at once and then dying off isn't supported by such a series of time stamped "dots".The discussion over the homonid fossils misses the big picture. Over a period of about 6 million years we have a few hundred individual specimens. When these are arrayed based on age we see an arrow marked out by those "dots". The arrow is clear because as we get closer to today we get specimens which are closer to humans of today.Somehow this interesting fact got left out of Genesis.It may well be that none of the individual species are on the direct evolutionary path to humans. They may be very, very close relatives but still not the same species as the precise one that led to us. However, it is clear from the limited data we have that over time there were species that were more and more like us.Likewise, it is very possible that all of the archaic Homo sapien samples we have are not ancestors to anyone alive today at all. However, that doesn't mean that they don't tell us what our ancestors looked like. Lines of human family descent die off as to lines of species.The dots are there. The temporal relationship between them is clear. Each dot "fits" where it should given the timing. They are not simple round dots. Each one has some connection to ones before and to ones after. They seem to have little arrows in them pointing to the next.The line are there!

Look Foll here is the real deal.
I for one stand for the liberation of Americans and not the oppression of
the communist left atheist.
The Christians credibility and goal is based on making the world more
peaceful and free as you are well aware of .
Atheism stands for perversion and oppression.
People like you are worthless and you represent nothing.
Frankly,the feigned ego you atheists represent is weak and is going to
backfire on you and others like you,and is going to be your undoing.
The atheist, in the mind of many God fearing and loving peaceful people ,is
nothing more than the tragically fragmented pieces of society.
You stand for the destruction of everything moral and there is no middle
ground in the war between good and evil.
Face it,atheists are out to ruin the planet and that God hates you and that
is not a battle a rational person would like to lose.
You scumbags hide behind the homeless,racial and Gay agendas and pretend you
care but you lousy scumbags only care about destroying morality and will use
any vehicle available,which means you're all whores.
You're slavish worship of immorality can be seen for what it is by every God
fearing and peaceful American.
You are out to rip everyone off and screw them out of their beliefs which
makes atheists the lousiest liberal on the planet and this is a Marxist war
of dirty ideals you perverts have started.
Atheism is the dark side of liberalism and if your brains were to be shoved
up an ants arse they'd rattle around like a bebe in a boxcar because
atheists are weak minded cretins.
Did you know that you would be diagnosed as an axis 2 anti-social in the
medical field and that the axis 2 diagnosis is untreatable like pedophilia?
You started off with a false premise in your original response and now I am
here to set the record straight for everyone reading this to see.
Atheism approves the slaughter of innocent children as Marxist history
dictates as well but that is a whole other topic to be left for another
chapter.
I, and people like myself that are the waltz of reason and reality, are here
to expose the clouds of atheism that are attempting to ruin the worlds
sunshine.
Hate that don't you?
You know it is a losing battle on your end.You are an atheist which means
that you are an audacious liar and your deep leftist stench is rising up
once again,this time in America.
My answer as a republican and patriot as well as a God lover and believer,
is that who cares what you think is important?
You are a minority and the constitution is set up for the majority of good
and not the minority of sin.
As an atheist you are the internal enemy of America and a group of
psychopaths,because the radical left is mentally ill,they are the damaged
goods of America and your subjective Godless gibberish proves that you all
hate American white Christian Heterosexuals(like the ACLU)and you want to
see them destroyed.
I have news for the right and left as well.Atheists want a country where
only THEY can live!
Eliminating atheism is a hope that will one day become a reality.
As an American that believes in morals and has a moral compass to guide them
unlike the atheist,it is plain to see that the radical left wants
desperately to set others moral standards.
Things just aren't looking to good for you desperate little bedwetting
atheists these days.
The Christian right is rising it's powerful and moral God loving heads and
are ready to battle you in the courts,the workplace,the churches, and
anywhere else there is a level playing field.
You are all a phony bunch of weak minded individuals that fails the litmus
test of rationality.
This country is bleeding from the heart because of you bastards.
I may be a guy that lets the mosquito out of the windows but if try to take
down morality then I'm out to get you first.If you try to take down our
churches then we are going to take you out first because your goal is to
destroy this nation.
This is a war between the sane Christian and the insane atheist.
In this story,if you want Christians to accept you then show us that you are
not anything more than moral less animals.
The plot is the good always wins as the final scene comes to an end.
I particularly like animals but I do not like atheists and no matter how
rational you try to fake coming off as you are all mentally ill losers.
You've been brainwashed by Satan and everything is upside down in your
minds.
Religious people are here to deconstruct the lies of atheism and there are
millions on this planet that would agree with me when I say you are all
sycophants and fools.
The atheists use selective transference of their degenerate philosophy to a
moral society by painting an inaccurate propaganda picture about
Christians,homosexuality,genocide.
Someone should institute a perverts anonymous for you people to join.
Everytime the radical left speaks my teeth clench from embarrassment for the
human race.
You feed each other lies and try to pass it off as truth,you all hate this
country down to it's bones and you are all subjective degenerates.
Nothing more than a bunch of boweevils trying to undo all of this country's
hard work.
Atheism is the exact opposite of the Trojan horse, because your agenda and
desires were written in stone long ago.
You hate goodness and morality to the core.The Church of the Painful Truth
-member #2,995,686-

You may attempt to show how this has anything to do with the scientific discussion at hand.

Laser, it's ok. If you feel insulted, just push through it. We creationists are serously outnumbered here, we need all the guys we have. And about the copy-paste stuff, yah, some of the articles out there are really good. But what you can do if you want is summurize the main points of the article in your own words, and cite the article as a main reference. But please don't quit like this!

This happens fairly often. Someone comes in thinking they can actually argue the science involved. When they find that it is much harder than they thought they resort to religious rants.Most of us are happy to allow individuals freedom of religious belief. Most (but not all) athiets do not consider believers to be their enemy. However, those who think that they have a right to force those beliefs on anyone else are the enemy of all rational, fair individuals be they atheist or faithful.I must thank you for your post. It is as clear an example as one could ask for of why it is worth spending time here and elsewhere countering the kind of irrational, ignorant and bigoted indivduals who make up the core of the literalist cult.I must however, re-assure our Christian friends here that we can tell the difference and do not tar all of them with the dark, black brush that you represent.

Your link does not address the whale transitional form I included a photo of in my post; Dorudon atrox other than misspelling the name.Did you even read the link to see if it explained anything about that species?Please explain to me, in your own words, why Dorudon atrox is or is not a good example of a transitional fossil.

Sieg Heil!!!Sieg Heil!!!Sieg Heil!!!

Let me add one element in here. When the issue of transitionals is raised, there are many to consider. one of the hallmarks of true transitionals though would be truly intermediate stages, where the specimen is clearly different from the {before} picture and from the {after} picture.In the case of thereapsids you have fossils that record the change in the jaw and earbones from reptile {3 jaw bones (A,B,C), one earbone (D)} to mammal {1 jawbone (A), 3 earbones (B,C,D), two (B&C) moved to the ear from the reptilian jaw} - how can that be?The intermediate fossils show specimens with two hinges in the jaw so the joint is changing from hinged at (C-D) to hinged at (A-B)&(C-D) to hinged at (A-B).http://www.geocities.com/...naveral/Hangar/2437/therapsd.htm Another point is that there are instances where virtually every transition and every species can be catalogued. Possibly the best documented to date is the foraminifera:http://www.cs.colorado.edu/...y/creation/foram_article3.html Notice: " complete life and evolutionary histories for dozens of species."Enjoy.

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}