What Science is NOT

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Originally posted by funkmasterfreaky:
I presented a better method of proving God exists. Asking him to show you personally. God has the advantage of not having language barriers, of being able to clearly and efficiently communicate. Even better he created you knows the # of hairs on your head and every thought before you think it. I'm sure he could find a very personal and efficient way to show you he is there. A unique custom designed way of communication for you in particular.
Man through science cannot cover the broad spectrum that is God he encompasses more than we can fathom on our own understanding. So this test is doomed to fail every time. Not for the lack of evidence but the lack of real wisdom and understanding to use it.
So my only other method is to appeal to God himself for the wisdom and understanding needed to know he exists.

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This is an interesting line of thought that a lot of Agnostics have taken to the next logical step.If humans cannot really perceive or comprehend God because of our little brains or somesuch, then how do we really know God exists?Or, If God exists, there is no way of comprehending God, so we must logically conclude that we do not know if God exists or not.If your sole reason for believing in God, the Bible, heaven, Hell, and all of it is "a feeling you have inside that only God can produce", then what does it mean when someone undergoing brain surgery while still awake (local anesthesia) describes euphoric religious feelings when a certain part of their brains are stimulated?

[QUOTE][B]then what does it mean when someone undergoing brain surgery while still awake (local anesthesia) describes euphoric religious feelings when a certain part of their brains are stimulated?[/QUOTE][/B]Maybe it means you should deny the existance of surgeons as well.

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If your sole reason for believing in God, the Bible, heaven, Hell, and all of it is "a feeling you have inside that only God can produce", then what does it mean when someone undergoing brain surgery while still awake (local anesthesia) describes euphoric religious feelings when a certain part of their brains are stimulated?

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I have made a comment on this in another thread, on the idea that alot of things that have been labeled mental "functions" may in fact only be mental "reactions" to the spiritual. Of course as i stated on that thread this is based on what i have seen, in friends that have been diagnosed as having a mental problem that i would diagnose as a spiritual ailment. And in the case of a few have come to know the Lord Jesus and no longer suffer from these "mental illnesses". (note i do not accredit ALL mental illness to spiritual but quite alot.) By the way what is a religious feeling i don't know what that is? ------------------
saved by grace

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Originally posted by gene90:
[QUOTE][B]then what does it mean when someone undergoing brain surgery while still awake (local anesthesia) describes euphoric religious feelings when a certain part of their brains are stimulated?[/QUOTE]

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Maybe it means you should deny the existance of surgeons as well.

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Come on, Gene.You know what I'm saying here.These mystical experiences have a physical basis, so claiming that all mystical feelings are from a supernatural source, like God, is a bit premature.

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Originally posted by funkmasterfreaky:

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If your sole reason for believing in God, the Bible, heaven, Hell, and all of it is "a feeling you have inside that only God can produce", then what does it mean when someone undergoing brain surgery while still awake (local anesthesia) describes euphoric religious feelings when a certain part of their brains are stimulated?

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I have made a comment on this in another thread, on the idea that alot of things that have been labeled mental "functions" may in fact only be mental "reactions" to the spiritual. Of course as i stated on that thread this is based on what i have seen, in friends that have been diagnosed as having a mental problem that i would diagnose as a spiritual ailment. And in the case of a few have come to know the Lord Jesus and no longer suffer from these "mental illnesses". (note i do not accredit ALL mental illness to spiritual but quite alot.) By the way what is a religious feeling i don't know what that is?

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Gee, you haven't done a lot of reading about brain function, have you?[This message has been edited by schrafinator, 11-28-2002]

I'm very sorry schraf. i'm an idiot i don't know anything. Who am i to think.

[QUOTE][B]These mystical experiences have a physical basis, so claiming that all mystical feelings are from a supernatural source, like God, is a bit premature.[/QUOTE][/B]I'm not claiming all mystical feelings came from God, so this is a strawman.And perhaps someone can explain why the UBB code is not working. HTML and UBB are on.[This message has been edited by gene90, 11-28-2002]

[QUOTE][B]Gee, you haven't done a lot of reading about brain function, have you?[/QUOTE][/B]You glossed over his point with an attack on his background. Great tactic.What if he's right?

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Originally posted by gene90:
[QUOTE][B]Gee, you haven't done a lot of reading about brain function, have you?[/QUOTE][/B]

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You glossed over his point with an attack on his background. Great tactic.

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What if he's right?

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It seems to me that if he was right, in that Jesus is the way to mental health, that there should be a lot more crazy people in non-christian nations. I am willing to bet a nickel that this is not the case.His argument is pure speculation and is not falsafiable to boot. So why do I need to entertain it?I do not dismiss his background. I point out that it is based upon wishes and wonderings rather than any kind of knowledge or findings.Read up on brain function and then tell me how likely it is that mental illness isn't physical.

An interesting thread, to say the least. I regretfully withhold further comment as I have only made it through about 1/4 of the posts but what I have read thus far has been enlightening and enjoyable, with good contributions from both sides of the aisle.------------------
As we survey all the evidence, the thought insistently arises that some supernatural agency - or, rather, Agency - must be involved. Is it possible that suddenly, without intending to, we have stumbled upon scientific proof of the existence of a Supreme Being? Was it God who stepped in and so providentially crafted the cosmos for our benefit?Prof. George Greenstein

Personally, I bite my lip, refrain from laughing, & move on to the next point.....------------------
Occam's razor is not for shaving with.

Even though I must continue to exhort you to abandon your medieval concepts of logic and reason, encouraging you to surrender your mind to the purity of Logos, I understand your reasoning fully, especially considering your faith in a razor that has become as dulled as is the evolutionary thought processes. However, take heart in the fact that you are not alone in your 14th century methodology. Most Evo's tend to accept the same flawed logic and reason that you embrace, which is why they find it so difficult to move into the 21st century's logistical arena, but at least the Evo's continue to be somewhat entertaining.Shalom!------------------
As we survey all the evidence, the thought insistently arises that some supernatural agency - or, rather, Agency - must be involved. Is it possible that suddenly, without intending to, we have stumbled upon scientific proof of the existence of a Supreme Being? Was it God who stepped in and so providentially crafted the cosmos for our benefit?Prof. George Greenstein

[Also posted in another thread]Hi Jet, welcome back!Rule 3 of the Forum Guidelines requests that EvC Forum members treat their fellow members with respect and remain dispassionate during discussion. This allows debate to focus on the issues and keeps personalities from becoming an issue. I'm sure you can see the value in this.Glad to see you back at EvC Forum!--------------------EvC Forum Administrator

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Originally posted by Jet:
Even though I must continue to exhort you to abandon your medieval concepts of logic and reason, encouraging you to surrender your mind to the purity of Logos, I understand your reasoning fully, especially considering your faith in a razor that has become as dulled as is the evolutionary thought processes. However, take heart in the fact that you are not alone in your 14th century methodology. Most Evo's tend to accept the same flawed logic and reason that you embrace, which is why they find it so difficult to move into the 21st century's logistical arena, but at least the Evo's continue to be somewhat entertaining.

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Shalom!

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You didn't find that sentence familiar, then?Mark------------------
Occam's razor is not for shaving with.

Hi Jet!Mark is just quoting your own words back to you from Message 42 of the A Christian (and creationist)'s condemnation of "Creation Science" thread.[This message has been edited by Admin, 12-02-2002]