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Author Topic:   Radicalism and religion.
almeyda
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 62 (115958)
06-17-2004 3:00 AM


I just wanted to hear your opinions on this i know there are many who have studied these religions. If they are just as great as any other religion including christianity, why do they lead to radicalism? terrorism? the killing of innocent people with insane violence?. Being a christian my belief is that satan is behind false doctrines as the Bible teaches which would account for the evil side. But for the non-christian i would like to hear different opinions about why these beliefs which have given religion a bad name for many victims lead to radical terrorism. Does these religions which can lead to evil mark down the validity of these religions?. Im sure there are many who believe religion should be strictly about loving God and loving your neighbour without evil in the heart.

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by crashfrog, posted 06-17-2004 5:34 AM almeyda has not replied
 Message 4 by Dr Jack, posted 06-17-2004 5:38 AM almeyda has not replied
 Message 5 by Sleeping Dragon, posted 06-17-2004 8:21 AM almeyda has not replied
 Message 6 by matt_dabbs, posted 06-17-2004 8:57 AM almeyda has not replied
 Message 7 by Trixie, posted 06-17-2004 9:08 AM almeyda has not replied
 Message 8 by JonF, posted 06-17-2004 9:09 AM almeyda has not replied
 Message 9 by jar, posted 06-17-2004 11:44 AM almeyda has not replied
 Message 10 by Abshalom, posted 06-17-2004 3:15 PM almeyda has not replied
 Message 14 by pink sasquatch, posted 06-17-2004 5:28 PM almeyda has not replied
 Message 17 by Hangdawg13, posted 06-17-2004 10:23 PM almeyda has not replied

  
AdminNosy
Administrator
Posts: 4754
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Joined: 11-11-2003


Message 2 of 62 (115959)
06-17-2004 3:10 AM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 3 of 62 (115972)
06-17-2004 5:34 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by almeyda
06-17-2004 3:00 AM


If they are just as great as any other religion including christianity, why do they lead to radicalism?
But Christianity leads to radicalism, too. Who do you think keeps bombing those abortion clinics?
Prior to September 11, the big incidents of domestic terrorism were mostly from Christian white folks, not arabs. What, you thought Tim McVeigh was a Muslim or something?
The point is, your question is kind of weird - there's nothing special about any religion that insulates it from radicalism, or especially promotes it. It's just a feature of religion, particularly any mindset that suggests there's a war between good and evil. Once you're convinced you're part of a war, there's little stopping you from rationalizing all kinds of horrors as "casualties of war."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by almeyda, posted 06-17-2004 3:00 AM almeyda has not replied

  
Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.7


Message 4 of 62 (115976)
06-17-2004 5:38 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by almeyda
06-17-2004 3:00 AM


Christianity hardly has a shining record. Study a little medieval history please.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by almeyda, posted 06-17-2004 3:00 AM almeyda has not replied

  
Sleeping Dragon
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 62 (115993)
06-17-2004 8:21 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by almeyda
06-17-2004 3:00 AM


To almeyda:
Christianity is special in the sense that when Christianity leads to radicalism and terrorism, it is referred to as either a "war on evil" or a "misuse of religion".
If we assume that all religions are inherently good (which is difficult, since the difference between a cult and a religion is moot at best), then terrorism and radicalism are "misuses" and does not affect the "validity" (I don't know how you're going to define your use of this word) of the religion.
Patiently awaiting your feedback.

"Respect is like money, it can only be earned. When it is given, it becomes pittance"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by almeyda, posted 06-17-2004 3:00 AM almeyda has not replied

  
matt_dabbs
Inactive Junior Member


Message 6 of 62 (115995)
06-17-2004 8:57 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by almeyda
06-17-2004 3:00 AM


You also have to remember that other religions only seem "radical" or "terrorist" to you because you were instilled with a moral and ethical system based on the Christian religion. If you were raised a fundamentalist and devout Muslim in the Middle East, it would be the Christian religion that was "radical" and "terrorist". It's all relative.
And as for the 'killing of innocent people with insane violence' that you mention in your original post, christians have a fair share of blood on their hands as well. Crusades for one, as well as the abortion clinic bombings more recently. Also, the invasion of Canaan by the Israelites as described in the Bible refers to entire cities being razed, including the women and children inside being killed. ALL of them. That seems pretty insane to me. But hey, as long as it's for the christian God, right?
[edited for grammatical error and to clarify]
This message has been edited by matt_dabbs, 06-17-2004 08:00 AM

"The religion of the invisible pink unicorn is based both on faith and logic...through faith we know that the unicorn is pink, while logic tells us it is invisible."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by almeyda, posted 06-17-2004 3:00 AM almeyda has not replied

  
Trixie
Member (Idle past 3705 days)
Posts: 1011
From: Edinburgh
Joined: 01-03-2004


Message 7 of 62 (115996)
06-17-2004 9:08 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by almeyda
06-17-2004 3:00 AM


Blinkers and perception
I suggest you do a little bit of reading on recent history of Northern Ireland. After you've done that you should have enough "evidence" to conclude that Christianity fulfills your idea of false doctrine. Is that what you want? To be honest, judging the validity of a religion based on what some people do in the name of that religion is like judging the weather in Antarctica based on a painting of a snow scene in Austria. They may be linked by snow, but that's about it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by almeyda, posted 06-17-2004 3:00 AM almeyda has not replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 168 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 8 of 62 (115997)
06-17-2004 9:09 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by almeyda
06-17-2004 3:00 AM


If they are just as great as any other religion including christianity, why do they lead to radicalism? terrorism? the killing of innocent people with insane violence?.
Radical terrorist Buddhists? Hindus? Sikhs? Animists? Shinto? Chinese Traditional? Rastafarians? (especially Rastafarians ).
However, radical terrorist Christians are well known.
Your premise is false.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by almeyda, posted 06-17-2004 3:00 AM almeyda has not replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 12 by custard, posted 06-17-2004 5:08 PM JonF has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 9 of 62 (116034)
06-17-2004 11:44 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by almeyda
06-17-2004 3:00 AM


Okay folk...
this is more proof that Almeyda has simply been jerking our chain. See Message 34 for more on that.
He did good and I for one was completely fooled. I'll admit, it was hard to imagine someone that had actually bought into the AIG nonsense, but not totally inconceivable. But these last two posts provide stunning evidence that we have been had.
Big time.
Congratulations Almeyda.
Great job. You fooled us completely.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by almeyda, posted 06-17-2004 3:00 AM almeyda has not replied

  
Abshalom
Inactive Member


Message 10 of 62 (116096)
06-17-2004 3:15 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by almeyda
06-17-2004 3:00 AM


How Radical Is Radical?
Not to downplay other replies or upstage them either since all replies thusfar are legit, but how about the Spanish conquests of the Americas?
Seems like after running out of victims of abuse in the Old World, the Inquisition simply moved its base of operation to the New World where 12 to 20 million Native Americans were wiped out in the period between 1492 and 1550 ... not to mention entire cultures and all their artifacts, arts, documents, ceremonies, everything ... GONE. Not until Nazi Germany was such a thorough job of genocide accomplished again.
Was if for gold, Christianity, or glory?
This message has been edited by Abshalom, 06-17-2004 02:17 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by almeyda, posted 06-17-2004 3:00 AM almeyda has not replied

Replies to this message:
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paisano
Member (Idle past 6422 days)
Posts: 459
From: USA
Joined: 05-07-2004


Message 11 of 62 (116128)
06-17-2004 4:23 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by JonF
06-17-2004 9:09 AM


Buddhist terrorists ? You betcha. Ever heard of the Tamil- Sinhalese conflict in Sri Lanka?
Hindus and Sikhs? C'mon. Google Punjab.
Shinto ? Studied the history of WW2 ?
That said, the OP is a terrible argument in favor of Christianity.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by JonF, posted 06-17-2004 9:09 AM JonF has not replied

  
custard
Inactive Member


Message 12 of 62 (116138)
06-17-2004 5:08 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by JonF
06-17-2004 9:09 AM


Rastafarian terrorists
JonF writes:
Radical terrorist Buddhists? Hindus? Sikhs? Animists? Shinto? Chinese Traditional? Rastafarians? (especially Rastafarians ).
Sadly, a quick yahoo search revealed this story from: http://www.mcjonline.com/news/01a/20010122d.shtml
A bizarre attack on a Caribbean Catholic church that caused the death of a nun has bewildered church leaders on the island of St. Lucia.
On Jan. 1, two men entered the Cathedral of Immaculate Conception with knives and lighted torches during mass and attacked both the congregation and church staff. Sister Theresa Egan, an Irish nun, was severely beaten by the men and died from her wounds the same day.
The men also attacked parishioners with knives, then doused some of them with gasoline and set them on fire. The Rev. Charles Gaillard, officiating priest at the mass, was also doused and set on fire. Thirteen people including Gaillard were sent to the hospital with injuries and severe burns.
The attackers, Kim John and Francis Phillip, told police after their arrest that they were followers of the Rastafarian religion and that the attack was an attempt to destroy corruption in the Catholic church, reports the Associated Press.
So maybe this isn't 'terrorism,' depending on perspective, but it seems to count as 'the killing of people with insane violence.' So much for the Rastafarians.
At least the Scientologists don't practice terrorism - unless you count Battlefield Earth.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by JonF, posted 06-17-2004 9:09 AM JonF has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by Abshalom, posted 06-17-2004 5:20 PM custard has not replied

  
Abshalom
Inactive Member


Message 13 of 62 (116141)
06-17-2004 5:20 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by custard
06-17-2004 5:08 PM


Re: Rastafarian terrorists
I heard those Rastifarians can really tear up a joint!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by custard, posted 06-17-2004 5:08 PM custard has not replied

  
pink sasquatch
Member (Idle past 6022 days)
Posts: 1567
Joined: 06-10-2004


Message 14 of 62 (116145)
06-17-2004 5:28 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by almeyda
06-17-2004 3:00 AM


Buddhists, and Hindus, and Shintos, oh my!
I think the point has been made in the above posts that all religions can be perverted into violent, sometimes genocidal acts - even the most peaceful of religions. It shouldn't be surprising that Christianity is one of the worst, given the horrible (righteous!?) acts described in the Bible.
If anything is upsetting, it is that Almeyda and many other Christians I've come into contact with seem to think that this is a defect in all non-Christian religions. This point is telling as to why the radicalism occurs in the first place - the radicals have the same idea, that their own religion could not by any means be perverted, and therefore their acts must be righteous.
I'm interested to hear if Almeyda continues to believe that Christianity is free of radicalism. If so - it would seem that is radicalism in of itself, no?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by almeyda, posted 06-17-2004 3:00 AM almeyda has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by macaroniandcheese, posted 06-17-2004 8:08 PM pink sasquatch has not replied

  
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3927 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 15 of 62 (116190)
06-17-2004 8:08 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by pink sasquatch
06-17-2004 5:28 PM


Re: Buddhists, and Hindus, and Shintos, oh my!
anyone hear of the new religious right and their fight against humanism?
we had a discussion on it in my social protest class today... but now that i'm thinking about it... those chick tracts... they're all about the evils of witches (can't wait till they do one on gypsies), gays, masons... oh yeah and don't forget the lies that jews tell about the great messiah... sound familiar? it should.
they called him adolph.

This message is a reply to:
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