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Author | Topic: What is God's Purpose for being? | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Tusko Member (Idle past 129 days) Posts: 615 From: London, UK Joined: |
You could be right - maybe nothing needs a "purpose" in this way. In which case, maybe we as a species don't need the concept of a god or gods. Perhaps the idea of supernatural deities is successful merely because they give our lives meaning by placing our puny existences into the context of an eternal schema.
I'm not sure; I think this is what DC is saying. It kind of makes sense to me. I guess its not a very strong argument against the existence of God. Its more specifically a response to people who say: "there has to be something more than just this life, or else whats the point?" I suppose the obvious objection is that people don't believe for such a mundane reason, and that faith can legitimately be founded on grounds other than the uncomfortable reality of a scared creature facing the finity of its own existence. Personally though, worry about death -- the ultimate unknown -- seems to be something very fundamental to our outlook. The sheer amount of faiths that feature some kind of an afterlife seem to me at least to point to gods as merely a comforting product of epic wishful thinking. Does that make sense?
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nator Member (Idle past 2198 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
Hi Almeyda,
This is a request that you please reply to my message #34 in the "Creation/Evolution dividing line" topic. Thanks.
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almeyda Inactive Member |
You could be right - maybe nothing needs a "purpose" in this way. In which case, maybe we as a species don't need the concept of a god or gods. Perhaps the idea of supernatural deities is successful merely because they give our lives meaning by placing our puny existences into the context of an eternal schema. This is exactly why i believe christianity and religion are very different. Religion is associated with a need for meaning, a belief about this world, but based on mans observations and feelings. Christianity is a FACT-ual religion. It is not based on the philosophies of man. But a man who has fullfilled hundreds of prophecies (which none of you want to believe), he resurected from the dead (we all know where Joseph Smith, Buddha, and Muhammads bodies are buried), a man who claims to be God of Israel. The same God who brought out Egypt with the plagues. And the God who fullfilled hundreds of consistent and vividly descripted prophecies in the books of Isaiah, Ezekial, Zechariah, and many more (no book in the world even BEGINS to come close to the credentials of christianity. I repeat.. A FACT-ual religion. Lets take a couple of world-religions and very briefly see there credentials, and foundation (without starting an off-topic debate) ISLAM: Founded by Muhammad. Islam scripture combines much of Judaism, christianity, and adds the writings based on Muhammads teaching (the Quran). Why does it have to be an off-shoot of the Bible? Why cant it have its own belief system, without having to rely on our Lord God of Israel and Gentiles? Can we believe that this so called 'copy-cat' of the Bible is a better, or clearer revelation? I hardly recall debating in any forums about why the Quran 'cant' or 'isnt' the word of God? Why? Why is it that all day long for 95% of the time, do we argue and debate why the Bible 'cant' or isnt' the word of God. Think about that for a while Islam denies the deity of Christ. Quite possibly the worst sin of all. Without, Islam has no personal relationship with God. As christianity have. We have a provision for sin, because we live in a man who was flesh, but righteous. And he was God. (There is no righteous, no not one - book of Romans. Islam believes to identify Christ as God, is blasphemous. Muhammads scripture contains no fullfilled prophecy, and only has 'beauty', for supernatural evidence. If there was any depth in meaning and hope,to the Quran, im sure we would be at this website studying it, debating it, chopping it, analyzing it. But we dont. Muhammad died 632AD and remained dead. BUDDHISM: A man who wrote athiestic philosophy. So straight off hand we see that this man believes in his own ideas. Buddhism claims 6% of the worlds population. So in a sense, it has not reached alot of people, particularly as Christ has. Sometimes the teachings are combined with other religions as Confucianism, or Shintoism. This sort of teaching is very much inconsistent, because if we believe this teaching to be true, it means that there is no truth, no revelation from a God, no standard of morality or authority. Every man is equal and in charge of their own life (survival of the fittest). Yet Buddha believes we should all listen to his opinion? Why? Because it makes me feel good inside? because i agree that we are all inner gods? What can change with this life?. Christianity believe everyone is sinful, and need redemption. This makes us personally responsible for our actions, and we live our lives as the only man in history who has been as righteous in character, soul, and teaching. Thats why christianity is the largest religion in the world, and thats why all day at this site you argue that Jesus didnt exist, didnt resurect from the dead, was not God, is not the 'right', or 'only' way. If you dont believe that we 95% of the time, always debate about Jesus Christ and the Bible then you must be blinded. Buddhism is simply the original religion that new-age philosophy as arisen from. Among other ancient eastern religions. There are no answers with religions like these. There is no evidence for inspiration. Merely men and women who wish everybody and everything is God. We dont die, we just reorganize. Its simple philosophy that we never ever bother debating.
I'm not sure; I think this is what DC is saying. It kind of makes sense to me. I guess its not a very strong argument against the existence of God. Its more specifically a response to people who say: "there has to be something more than just this life, or else whats the point?" Going back to my point before. Alot of people with personal beliefs and feelings, have questions like that. But with christianity, it is not a search for God. But a personal relationship with God. This is why christianity 'succeded'. This is why we debate about the Bible, and work our asses off debating that this isnt, and cannot be the word of God. The truth of the world is staring us all in the face day after day, IMO.
suppose the obvious objection is that people don't believe for such a mundane reason, and that faith can legitimately be founded on grounds other than the uncomfortable reality of a scared creature facing the finity of its own existence. Personally though, worry about death -- the ultimate unknown -- seems to be something very fundamental to our outlook. The sheer amount of faiths that feature some kind of an afterlife seem to me at least to point to gods as merely a comforting product of epic wishful thinking. Thats why you need to keep studying the world-religions, and hopefully you find the truth. Alot of religion these days are not taking the doctrine of 'inherently evil' or 'sinful nature' seriously enough to provide a change in action, to good. But merely find your inner-godhood and then youll be a god. But what if my inner-godhead is raping girls? If it makes me happy, why cant i do it? Then they try to bring goodness and say well thats bad because it hurts people. Says who? Whos authoritive standard of morality are we basing this philosophy on? Humanist believe that their opinion is right. Marx and Lenin believed their philosphy was, and is right. New-agers believe in their own philosophy. So that leaves us with a bunch of religions who are simply searching for God, or for truth, or for meaning. Yet do we sit here discussing and debating these religions? Not to my recollection.
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almeyda Inactive Member |
I wasnt going to reply because i dont want to debate science anymore. It will be replied to asap.
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Legend Member (Idle past 5034 days) Posts: 1226 From: Wales, UK Joined: |
almeyda writes:
that's a sweeping statement!
Christianity is a FACT-ual religion almeyda writes:
Is it not based on the philosophies of Jesus ? Is it not based on the philosophies of Paul ? Were they not men ?
It is not based on the philosophies of man almeyda writes:
If they were FACTS, how could we deny them? We're currently discussing prophecy in [forum=-1], feel free to support your opinion there.
But a man who has fullfilled hundreds of prophecies (which none of you want to believe almeyda writes: None of the above are facts, but wishful thinking and speculation. Events that allegedly happened thousand of years ago, without independent verification and contrary to the laws of nature are just alleged events, not FACTS. But a man who has fullfilled hundreds of prophecies (which none of you want to believe), he resurected from the dead (we all know where Joseph Smith, Buddha, and Muhammads bodies are buried), a man who claims to be God of Israel. The same God who brought out Egypt with the plagues. And the God who fullfilled hundreds of consistent and vividly descripted prophecies in the books of Isaiah, Ezekial, Zechariah, and many more (no book in the world even BEGINS to come close to the credentials of christianity. I repeat.. A FACT-ual religion.
"In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the pigeon and some days you'll be the statue."
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coffee_addict Member (Idle past 505 days) Posts: 3645 From: Indianapolis, IN Joined: |
almeyda writes:
A very very very very very very very very very wise choice you made. Stick with it! I wasnt going to reply because i dont want to debate science anymore.
You don't see me debating about geology or any other subject that I'm not well versed in. Even in the bible section, I only reply when I know something about it.
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1372 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
Christianity is a FACT-ual religion. It is not based on the philosophies of man modern christianity is based on the philosophies of the apostle paul, who last time i checked was a man. it's also partly founded on the philosophis of jesus of nazareth who was at the very least half man.
we all know where Joseph Smith, Buddha, and Muhammads bodies are buried even thought joseph smith was a hack, he never claimed to be a god. neither did muhammad or siddhartha. and to my knowledge we do not know where those two are buried.
a man who claims to be God of Israel which is blasphemy, punishable by death. jesus also doesn't make this claim in 3 out of the 4 gospels in the nt.
And the God who fullfilled hundreds of consistent and vividly descripted prophecies in the books of Isaiah, Ezekial, Zechariah, and many more take this to the prophesy thread. i know lots of unfulfilled prophesies.
no book in the world even BEGINS to come close to the credentials of christianity. I repeat.. A FACT-ual religion. now this is just a preposterous statement. this book makes a number of claims that clearly contradict any evidence we have. it leaves out important info, and tends to just make stuff up. on top of that, we don't have any evidence that jesus even existed, let alone rose from the dead. we also don't have any proof of abraham, isaac, jacob, or moses.
ISLAM: Founded by Muhammad. Islam scripture combines much of Judaism, christianity, and adds the writings based on Muhammads teaching (the Quran). Why does it have to be an off-shoot of the Bible? Why cant it have its own belief system, without having to rely on our Lord God of Israel and Gentiles? one could reasonably ask the same thing of christianity, especially with the way it tries to fulfill the wrong ot prophesies.
Can we believe that this so called 'copy-cat' of the Bible is a better, or clearer revelation? I hardly recall debating in any forums about why the Quran 'cant' or 'isnt' the word of God? Why? Why is it that all day long for 95% of the time, do we argue and debate why the Bible 'cant' or isnt' the word of God. Think about that for a while because we KNOW who wrote the quran: muhammad. we also know who a lot of the authors of the bible were, but christians are less willing to accept that bible was written by people.
Islam denies the deity of Christ. Quite possibly the worst sin of all. other way around buddy. christ was made in the image of god, and worshipping an image of god is idolatry.
quote: quote: quote: And he was God quote: doesn't sound like it to me.
no standard of morality or authority actually, buddhism as well as hinduism have STRICT moral standards. your actions in this life are said to impact what role you play in the next.
Every man is equal and in charge of their own life (survival of the fittest). those two are not equatable. at all. if everyone is equal, there is no fittest.
Yet Buddha believes we should all listen to his opinion? Why? Because it makes me feel good inside? the first teaching of buddhism is that all life is suffering. sound pleasant? the second is that suffering is caused by desire. the third is that suffering can be removed by removing desires. and the fourth is that buddhism is the way to do it. it teaches that we should give up material wants, and help those around us. sounds like something jesus would say, actually.
Christianity believe everyone is sinful, and need redemption. This makes us personally responsible for our actions, and we live our lives as the only man in history who has been as righteous in character, soul, and teaching. in my personal experience, christianity plays into the guilt complex. its followers exhibit almost an abused-wife syndrome. we're told that we're born sinful, even though the bible doesn't say any such thing. we're told that we can't be perfect in the eyes of god, even though the bible lists a number of men called perfect by god (who did, btw, sin). and, more importantly, modern christianity gives people an "out" for their actions: if i did something good, praise jesus. if i did something bad, satan made me do it. how does that teach personal responsibility?
Buddhism is simply the original religion that new-age philosophy as arisen from. Among other ancient eastern religions. There are no answers with religions like these. There is no evidence for inspiration. Merely men and women who wish everybody and everything is God. We dont die, we just reorganize. Its simple philosophy that we never ever bother debating. actually, i've found a lot of truth in buddhism and especially taoism. if i wasn't a christian or a jew, i would have been one of those two. perhaps maybe would should read some hindu or buddhist literature before making this claim.
But with christianity, it is not a search for God. But a personal relationship with God. i don't see god anywhere. where is he? i'd like to get to know him. my religion has ALWAYS been a quest for truth, a search for god. the idea that you've found him and know everything there is to know about him is blasphemy. how can your puny finite mortal mind contain all there is to know about god? impossible! everytime i think i've found more, and that i know god, i find there is so much more that i don't.
Thats why you need to keep studying the world-religions, have you read the bhagavad-gita's? the tao te ching? the quran? the book of mormon? the epic of gilgamesh? norse and greek mythology? the bible? your ideas of them all seem to indicate that you haven't read any of them.
Alot of religion these days are not taking the doctrine of 'inherently evil' or 'sinful nature' seriously enough to provide a change in action, to good. But merely find your inner-godhood and then youll be a god. quote: quote: the bible says we have a bit of god in us. perhaps you shouldn't be so insulted at ideas that are also very judeo-christian.
But what if my inner-godhead is raping girls? If it makes me happy, why cant i do it? have you read this chapter?
quote: or this one?
quote: Then they try to bring goodness and say well thats bad because it hurts people. Says who? Whos authoritive standard of morality are we basing this philosophy on? and in the bible it's god? what about the above verse? what about where god tells the hebrew people to steal from the egyptians before they leave? what abotu where he tells them to kill all the canaanites?
So that leaves us with a bunch of religions who are simply searching for God, or for truth, or for meaning. Yet do we sit here discussing and debating these religions? Not to my recollection. no, because these "religions" don't go about telling everyone else that they're the only right one and that they should be taught in schools.
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1372 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
this was sort of common problem i had on another board. they called me a deist because i believe that we don't need god for meaning, purpose, or even creation. and yet i still believe in god. this puzzled a lot of them.
but i view faith as something special, on top of what i know factually. god, to me, doesn't exist to create or validate my life somehow. god exists because he does.
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DC85 Member Posts: 876 From: Richmond, Virginia USA Joined: |
quote:Exactly I am asking the believers My site The Atheist Bible My New Debate Fourms!
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jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
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DC85 Member Posts: 876 From: Richmond, Virginia USA Joined: |
quote:yes I am with you My site The Atheist Bible My New Debate Fourms!
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jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Okay, let's move on to the next step.
Let's try and think like that two year old I was mentioning. A two year old does not really have a purpose. Instead, any pupose, any direction, any goals for the two year old are set by the parents. The two year old's world revolves around immediate needs, when cold to be warm, when hungry to be fed, when bored to be stimulated. But at two, there isn't really much purpose beyond that unless it comes from outside, from the parents. Are we still in agreement? Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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DC85 Member Posts: 876 From: Richmond, Virginia USA Joined: |
I still do not get what you are trying to say..
quote:yes Edit: I keep forgeting this board has in reply to feature sorry This message has been edited by DC85, 10-15-2004 07:41 PM My site The Atheist Bible My New Debate Fourms!
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jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
So far so good.
Now, still from the two year old's perspective, purpose is totally external, it's directed from above. Still together? Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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DC85 Member Posts: 876 From: Richmond, Virginia USA Joined: |
are you trying to say this is the reason they have this belief?
I already knew that.. If not keep going... sorry
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