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Author
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Topic: Believing it is not proving it
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Brian
Member (Idle past 4980 days) Posts: 4659 From: Scotland Joined: 10-22-2002
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Message 166 of 300 (300339)
04-02-2006 4:28 PM
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Reply to: Message 162 by Faith
04-02-2006 4:15 PM
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Re: It is you who have been refuted, jar.
A brand new conundrum has been established by EvC. It isn't new Faith, you have been doing it for years  Brian.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 162 by Faith, posted 04-02-2006 4:15 PM | | Faith has not replied |
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Admin
Director Posts: 13017 From: EvC Forum Joined: 06-14-2002 Member Rating: 1.9
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Message 167 of 300 (300340)
04-02-2006 4:28 PM
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Reply to: Message 165 by Faith
04-02-2006 4:27 PM
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Re: its a big misunderstanding
Faith writes: Idiots, the lot of you. Your posting privileges in this forum have been suspended.
| -- | Percy | | | EvC Forum Director |
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 165 by Faith, posted 04-02-2006 4:27 PM | | Faith has not replied |
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Morte
Member (Idle past 6124 days) Posts: 140 From: Texas Joined: 05-03-2004
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Message 168 of 300 (300345)
04-02-2006 5:02 PM
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Reply to: Message 1 by Faith
03-30-2006 6:36 PM
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Re: Lookingglass Logic at EvC
My apologies if this has been brought up or already disproven by previous acts (I don't have time to read the entire thread), but I think the problem might be between these posts...
Post 203:
robinrohan writes: True, but "Christian evolutionism" is an oxymoron. (emphasis added) (They talk about robinrohan's argument.)
Post 213:
jar writes: One that has been refuted numerous times. I'm sorry robin, but the fact that I accept the TOE and also believe in GOD, the Christian GOD refutes your assertions. (emphasis is mine) Post 1 of this thread:
Faith writes: NOTE JAR'S ARGUMENT CAREFULLY PLEASE: What he and others believe proves it's right to believe it, proves it true. It sounded to me like he's not saying that what he believes proves it's right to believe it, but is making an argument against the associative implication of the statement "Christian evolutionism is an oxymoron", that Christian evolutionism (the belief) cannot exist. Just a possibility, however; it's how I read the exchange. I also wonder if the issue is more one of the terms of the argument's subject than the exchange itself, of the differing beliefs in the meaning of "Christian" (for example, whether faith in Christ is enough to qualify as Christian). I could see how the statements could be read differently, then; but surely a different reading is not cause for moderation? (Pun not intended.) {Edit: Didn't see the suspension.} This message has been edited by Morte, 04-02-2006 05:03 PM
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1 by Faith, posted 03-30-2006 6:36 PM | | Faith has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 415 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 169 of 300 (300346)
04-02-2006 5:11 PM
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Reply to: Message 168 by Morte
04-02-2006 5:02 PM
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Re: Lookingglass Logic at EvC
If you are interested there is an exchange between robin and me that begins at Message 140 that deals with several of robins assertions.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 168 by Morte, posted 04-02-2006 5:02 PM | | Morte has not replied |
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ReverendDG
Member (Idle past 4132 days) Posts: 1119 From: Topeka,kansas Joined: 06-06-2005
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Message 170 of 300 (300349)
04-02-2006 5:23 PM
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Reply to: Message 140 by jar
04-02-2006 1:06 PM
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Re: I find your position illogical
Like I said before about robin's position, its all based on a strawman version of god not on what people believe in reality his arguement over morals is kind of meaningless since we can't directly ask god why he does or does not do something the problem i see is robin is playing god is good based on our morals, which is the common view of most of the fundi groups when in reality god is Benevolent and not all good considering all the OT stuff also RR are you sure you are a nilist? shouldn't you not care one way or another? {Pointing out robinrohan's topic Non-belief and Nihilism. - Adminnemooseus} This message has been edited by Adminnemooseus, 04-02-2006 05:38 PM
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 140 by jar, posted 04-02-2006 1:06 PM | | jar has not replied |
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robinrohan
Inactive Member
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Re: I find your position illogical
also RR are you sure you are a nilist? shouldn't you not care one way or another? Just one more argument to support my theory that there is no God.
"Headpiece filled with straw, Alas!"--T. S. Eliot
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 170 by ReverendDG, posted 04-02-2006 5:23 PM | | ReverendDG has not replied |
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robinrohan
Inactive Member
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Message 172 of 300 (300388)
04-02-2006 9:20 PM
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Reply to: Message 168 by Morte
04-02-2006 5:02 PM
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Re: Lookingglass Logic at EvC
It sounded to me like he's not saying that what he believes proves it's right to believe it, but is making an argument against the associative implication of the statement "Christian evolutionism is an oxymoron", that Christian evolutionism (the belief) cannot exist. Just a possibility, however; it's how I read the exchange Obviously, it exists. I'm just saying it's illogical. This message has been edited by robinrohan, 04-02-2006 08:21 PM
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 168 by Morte, posted 04-02-2006 5:02 PM | | Morte has not replied |
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robinrohan
Inactive Member
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Message 173 of 300 (300390)
04-02-2006 9:25 PM
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Reply to: Message 144 by jar
04-02-2006 1:27 PM
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Re: Jar's other argument
your example also reduces GOD to nothing more than some theological equivalent of a machine that should be judged on the reliability of the products it stamps out. That is not just illogical, it is anathema to either Christianity or any religion. I'm not sure what this is supposed to mean. If we don't know right from wrong, then we can't sin. If we can't sin, Christianity is meaningless. You, a Christian, don't seem to understand what Christianity is all about. It's all about man's sins. This message has been edited by robinrohan, 04-02-2006 08:26 PM
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 144 by jar, posted 04-02-2006 1:27 PM | | jar has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 176 by jar, posted 04-02-2006 9:35 PM | | robinrohan has replied |
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robinrohan
Inactive Member
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Re: I find your position illogical
Like I said before about robin's position, its all based on a strawman version of god not on what people believe in reality So what is it that people believe "in reality"? That God is a sort of demi-God out there doing the best He can? Is that what people BELIEVE?
"Headpiece filled with straw, Alas!"--T. S. Eliot
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 170 by ReverendDG, posted 04-02-2006 5:23 PM | | ReverendDG has not replied |
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robinrohan
Inactive Member
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Message 175 of 300 (300392)
04-02-2006 9:33 PM
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Reply to: Message 157 by jar
04-02-2006 3:57 PM
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Re: its a big misunderstanding
I will be happy to discuss any others as any of you bring them up, but as it stands now, I feel all he has posted so far have been adequately refuted. Nothing you have said amounts to a refutation.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 157 by jar, posted 04-02-2006 3:57 PM | | jar has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 177 by jar, posted 04-02-2006 9:37 PM | | robinrohan has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 415 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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You can't keep ANY of your arguments straight.
robin writes: I'm not sure what this is supposed to mean. If we don't know right from wrong, then we can't sin. If we can't sin, Christianity is meaningless. That has absolutely NOTHING to do with my response or to the post I was responding to.
robin writes: You, a Christian, don't seem to understand what Christianity is all about. It's all about man's sins. That may be true for those Christians that believe in Original Sin or the Fall or that spend there lives worrying about what will happen after they die. But that's NOT what Christianity is about. Christianity is about living and Love. Love GOD, and love others as you love yourself. It really is as simple as that.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar
Member (Idle past 415 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Re: its a big misunderstanding
It's fine if you believe that. I have no problem with that, the record is here, and all can read it. They can decide who supported their position. Start with Message 140.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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robinrohan
Inactive Member
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Message 178 of 300 (300395)
04-02-2006 9:43 PM
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Reply to: Message 176 by jar
04-02-2006 9:35 PM
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Re: You can't keep ANY of your arguments straight.
It really is as simple as that. Your sentimental version of Christianity leaves out everything that would explain the world. The Fall explains the world. But if evolution is true, there can be no Fall. How do you explain suffering? If it's not our fault, then it's God's fault. He's the one who created this mess. How do you explain that, Jar? How do you explain it? God works in mysterious ways?
"Headpiece filled with straw, Alas!"--T. S. Eliot
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 176 by jar, posted 04-02-2006 9:35 PM | | jar has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 181 by jar, posted 04-02-2006 9:57 PM | | robinrohan has replied |
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robinrohan
Inactive Member
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Message 179 of 300 (300396)
04-02-2006 9:47 PM
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Reply to: Message 177 by jar
04-02-2006 9:37 PM
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Re: its a big misunderstanding
It's fine if you believe that. It's not about BELIEF. It's about what is logical. You just believe all this stuff on a whim? Is that it? You have no reasons? You just feel like believing it?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 177 by jar, posted 04-02-2006 9:37 PM | | jar has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 180 by jar, posted 04-02-2006 9:50 PM | | robinrohan has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 415 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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You really can't read, can you.
jar responded to robin and said it was fine if robin held his views. Robin then replies:
It's not about BELIEF. It's about what is logical. You just believe all this stuff on a whim? Is that it? You have no reasons? You just feel like believing it? Robin, that has nothing to do with my post.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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