Who Are The Xians? What Is Xmas?

*gets the popcorn*this should be interesting.

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אָרַח

Google thows up numerous sites that state that the Oxford English Dictionary says that using 'Xian' or 'Xtian' for Christian dates back to at least the 1600s (and the 1500s for 'Xmas').I don't have a complete OED - or the shelf space to store all 20 volumes! - and my poor health precludes me going to a library myself.However if anybody here can get to a library with a complete OED then maybe they at least tell buz that Xmas and Xian have been around for at least 4 or 500 years.Or maybe they will find that all those web sites are lying after all

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I wish I didn't know now what I didn't know then

oh horsefucking X.really buz. lay off the eggnog. you're making me wanna spork myself in the eye. for real.i was raised in a presbyterian church. my mother was raised in a presbyterian church. my father was raised in a baptist church. my grandparents... well i dunno which churches they went to, but half of my family is scottish so chances are....now maybe since i'm scottish, i'm biased towards the X. but. i've known from early childhood that the fishy sign was adopted by the early church because it was close enough to the X to be significant to those who knew, but far away enough that those who didn't wouldn't kill them for quickly drawing it in the sand with a toe and then erasing it just as easily. it came from when christians were not so popular.i have always known that the X was a reference to christ. and you are being ignorant and blasting the rest of us with your idiocy. i'm not you and neither are the rest of us. (shall we have a poll mods?)however, i have never liked the look of the abbreviation and i don't like the way people use it. it always feels to me like they're brushing me aside as quickly as they pass over the one word that makes me different from everyone else out there.buz. relax. really. if nothing else, remember this.there are two ways to bring light into the world. one is to create it, and one is to reflect it. you're doing neither. think a moment. what are you reflecting when you do this?

I'm not seeing an entry for "Xian" nor for "Xtian". But there are entries for Xmas. Oldest is from 1551 in E. Lodge "Illustrated British History.Hmm, under "X" (meaning 6), it give roughly what many have discussed above (short for Christ). Oldest reference is 1100. Spellings were a bit different at that time. With a recent spelling, I see a 1634 reference for "Xtianity", 1685 reference for "Xstened".I don't have shelf space for 20 volumes either. I have the 2-volume set. That's the one where you need a microscope to read it.

keep in mind that that's just english, not the oldest usage in any language.

Of course. But buzsaw didn't respect examples in other languages.He probably won't be impressed with the English examples either.

Buzzsaw, some years back in the 80s I thought the same thing as this trend was just getting started as it coincided with the whole Happy Holidays thing, but when I talked with some people back then about it, they pointed out that the X had Christian roots. You know that you and I agree on a whole lot on this forum, and I am basically on your side in despising the whole secularization of Christmas, but that was my experience nonetheless.I think the tone of many on the other side here at the forum is offensive, and certainly some of the posts in this thread.

It may only be English but that's what buzsaw was complaining about remember! So now we have historic references indicating X being used as a shorthand for Christ over 300 years ago and not in a disrespectful way (the 1600s was a time when you really didn't want to casually cause religious offence).Surely now that's the end of the issue? Thanks to nwr for the info by the way.

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I wish I didn't know now what I didn't know then

i'm actually on your side, here. i kind of wish the overriding pagan traditions (trees, a date in december, etc) weren't so ingrained. maybe we should just let go of christmas as an overly pagan holiday, and hold a small respectful service in april to really celebrate the birth of our lord and saviour. mine, i'm sure. you like taking offense at my posts and i like getting frustrated at yours. but you're kind of hitting the nail on the head here and not realizing it: it IS about tone. anything can be said in an offensive tone, including "Xian."

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אָרַח

yeah, i know. that was more of a note for buz to see, actually, noting that the non-english tradition goes back even further. yeah, right. the oed lies, i tell you! it's part of an evilushunist plot!

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אָרַח

Here are two excerpts from separate 18th Century works:http://homepages.slingshot.co.nz/~funkaloyd/files/1.gif
http://homepages.slingshot.co.nz/~funkaloyd/files/2.gifExcuse the large size; I wanted to make them nice and clear.The first is from The Art of Reading and Writing English, written by one Isaac Watts in 1753. The second is a from an appendix of a collection of sermons, compiled by Sampson Letsome, also in 1753.It should be clear from these examples that "Xian" and "Xmas" are but abbreviations, with no offensive connotations other than those which you yourself insert. The abbreviation may not have English roots, but so what? "Etc." doesn't either.Now, on another note, when your eyes crossed "18th Century" above, did you read it as "eighteenth century" or "one eighth century"? The former, no doubt. If somebody were to read it as "one eighth century", whose fault would that be; where would the mistake lie?

Donno if this has already been said yet, but...You could even make the case that Xmas is more holy than Christmas...The abbreviation of a name was a sign of great reverence and respect.The Hebrews abbreviated the name of God. Likewise, early Christians abbreviated Christ with the Greek letter X as a sign of reverence.

Hangdog, why do you hate Christ and Christians so much?!!?!?!?!

X is a letter in the English alphabet, stop trying to be cool using greek to say Christians. Christians don't like it, including me. It's just lazy, and stupid, ugly, and lame. So whatever, noone can stop you, but everytime you use it you look dumb.(Oh but, its the opposite really, prophex, you see it shows you know Christian History... Predicted.)In English, it has a negative connotation for some reason to see Xmas, or Xians, instead of Christians, noone understands the greek language in America, so stop trying to use terms not to get a point across, but to rather annoy, and feel more intelligent. It's not working...I think it annoyed buz so much that he started a thread about it. I don't blame him. Call us ignorant and stoopid for not enjoying the cleverness in it, but it doesn't change the fact that we are speaking english.

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these walls are paper thin
and everyone hears every little sound.

quote:

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there are two ways to bring light into the world. one is to create it, and one is to reflect it. you're doing neither. think a moment. what are you reflecting when you do this?

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Niether are you. Frankly it seems like you joined the masses of evc opinion to hate on buz here.

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these walls are paper thin
and everyone hears every little sound.