love one to another

No such thing as true humans.
Ideals are the only things that can be true.

This is a good angle of this topic! In her Opening Post, Brennakimi said: So, Dawg---if (another) bunch of zealous Al Quaida operatives (who were prepared to die for their beliefs, by the way) managed to Nuke Chicago, should our Patriotic Zeal allow us as a nation to go on a vindicative rampage even more terrifying than the one we now are on? Is War ever justifiable in the eyes of Christ?
Chris talked about War vs Christianity... I responded by showing how many Pastors became Patriots instead of proponents of "turning the other cheek". Most notably this one, a highly respected Pastor who is usually wise about Biblical issues, but who confused me this time.
As a nation, we had the sympathy of much of the world until we got up off the pavement and started slugging anyone who was not "with" us.....most notably the bases and the countries who housed Al-Queda. Pastor Stanley urged us to have compassion for the victims of 9-11, praying for our own. This was, of course, a human response, but it tipped over any idealism that I have and had concerning what a supposed Christian Nation would do.Where is the compassion now? We are involved in a war that appears to achieve nothing except to bully people over to the Capitalist side of the equation.Brennakimi, I hope that I am not going off-topic! I know that you are talking about the behavior of many so-called Christians that you know. Im just trying to make sense of what it means to be a Christian in light of the reality of todays world.

Should Christians get involved in politics that effect other people in the world?

​

Should Christians simply do good deeds around their local communities, judging nobody and staying out of controversial topics that they disagree with others about?

WWJD....literally, What would Jesus do or say, were He among us as, perhaps, a homeless Iraqi?

​

---

Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties either, but right through every human heart, and through all human hearts. This line shifts. Inside us, it oscillates with the years. Even within hearts overwhelmed by evil, one small bridgehead of good is retained; and even in the best of all hearts, there remains a small corner of evil. --Alexander Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago

i absolutely think that christians should get involved in politics. but not in the way that they are now. this 'god bless america' crap is a disease. but most american christians aren't really christians but followers of american folk religion the roots of which are in christianity but has long since made a clean break. if you believe that angels are tall, anthropomorphic, clothed in white and have blonde hair and blue eyes. if you feel that the devil is the adversary of god and not merely the adversary of man. if you feel that america is god's chosen nation built on christianity to take over the world and spread democracy.these are examples of hegemonic superiority complexes. we feed off of the things we are taught and create a national identity of mythic proportions. just like hitler thought his people were related to south-central asians.the point is to take REAL christ-like principles into politics. make the least of these the greatest. bless the peacemaker instead of calling him unpatriotic. care for widows and orphans instead of complaining about how much you're paying in taxes. do what you can to ease the suffering of poverty. this is christian behavior, not screaming at fags and the whores looking for abortions. and this is what we ought to be taking into international politics. and that is why i'm in the field. to alieviate suffering and care for the lesser. i'm not perfect, but i know where i am led. i am a peacemaker.This message has been edited by brennakimi, 02-20-2006 11:02 AM

Christians are citizens too. They should be involved in politics as part of their civic responsibilities. However, this is involvement as individuals. IMO there should not be a Christian PAC (political action committee). The idea that Christianity itself is about politics strikes me as heresy. I see Christianity as having to do with individual responsibility, hence individual participation in politics. Christians should be involved in good deeds. But it is an indivual involvement. Some Christians might see this as a mission to visit the sick in hospitals, while other Christians might see it as a mission to campaign for a better public health system.Again, I see Christianity as being about individual responsibility, each doing his/her "good deeds" has he/she sees best. It is not about turning the Church into a political bloc. Perhaps he would be describing the U.S.A. as the great satan As for the topic of this thread - I do see carrying out our civic responsibilities as an aspect of our love one to another.

Here's what I think: There is no such thing as a Christian war. A man must obey the Spirit and judge what He should do in time of war.I will not fight for America today. It no longer stands for what I believe in. (and that is a HUGE 180 degree change for me; a year ago I was hoping to go into the Marine Corps)This message has been edited by Hangdawg13, 02-21-2006 01:19 AM

Patriotism isn't a Christian virtue; in fact, its the norm for true Christians to be persecuted by governments, not the leaders of them (though governments infused with Christian people are sometimes ok... but I think when a person becomes truly wise he has no desire to rule over his fellow man). When Constantine married the church to government it created a great apostasy. God's kingdom has nothing to do with worldly governments. Probably not, but who knows... God could use you if you're there. Yes to the doing good deeds part, no to the latter. Speaking truth always will be controversial. It offended the Jews so much they killed Jesus, but he didn't back down. Neither should we. He would have much to say against most of the churches in America today. In fact, He'd prally get kicked out of most of the churches in America today.

I really respect that! You truly are being drawn closer to the Spirit who, in fact, lives in you!

I am with you Brenna. I wish we could all find a way to love one another, regardless of what we believe.But it would seem that it is next to impossible. No matter how mush we love, there will be enemies.I ask you this, if you separate yourself from those groups you do not wish to be a part of, then are you loving them?Are you letting them go down a wrong path, by not pointing it out to them?The bible says you can point out sin to your brother.
But also says to be aware of the plank in your own eye.The bible says we should forgive, and when they asked Jesus if seven times was enough, he said 77 times. This is what I believe:
Love is a relative thing, and a matter of your heart. Only God, and you really know what is going on in your heart. It doesn't matter where you come from, or who you are.
It doesn't matter if your name is riVerRaT, or you gay, or you've killed dozens of people. It doesn't matter if you really can't stand organized religion. It matters what is going on in your heart.Since each of us are individual, and gone through our own separate set of experiences, how we translate this love is purely relative to each of us.That is what separates our version of love, from God's version of Love.I think the more time we spend asking God what love is, and in each and every case ask him how should I love this person, he will let us know.What I am finding is no matter how hard I try to do these things, I always fall short.In my church, I am part of the leadership (big deal) and we have had to voluntary subscribe to a core set of relational values.They are 2 pages long, so I will summarize them here:1. Communicate in a Christlike manor
...Keeping our word
...Having soft eyes and voice
...Responding not reacting
...Boldly speaking the truth in love
...Speaking to the potential
2. Practice unconditional love
...Walking in humility
...seeking forgiveness
...Believing the best (not judging motives)
3. Have integrity
...Being congruent in all we say and do
...Being accountable to one an other
... Keeping short accounts
4. Be vulnerable
...Being open and honest
...Owning our own stuff
...Being interdependent and working as a teamThere are bible verses that go with all this stuff.You guys know me a little, and if you were to judge me, I am sure I fall short of some of this stuff.I have agreed to subscribe to this stuff, not just in the church, but at home, and here as well.It has shown me that loving can be like work, but the work is what I have to do on myself.

Some people are not lovable.

lies.

no. the bible says to correct the plank in your eye before you begin to pick at other people's flaws. "he who is without sin, cast the first stone." jesus taught that only the righteous and perfect could correct the behavior of others. and that was him. and his correction was a million times more gentle than anything you have suggested here.

At least for the gentle He was gentle. Was he gentle with the Phariseses though?

So you're saying everybody's lovable. Have you ever known any of those real bastards?

Brennakimi, it seems that your topic on loving one another is causing a few bits of arguing and turmoil amongst you.May I suggest that if nobody has anything "good" to say to anyone else, we keep silent?This message has been edited by AdminPhat, 02-25-2006 11:14 AM

Loving the unlovable is a Christian obligation. Love is not an emotion by this standard, it is a commitment to do good to others, further their wellbeing.