How do you decide what is True in the Bible?

Yes. And without the Bible there would be no way to understand these things.

forget it.This message has been edited by DrJones*, 05-22-2005 01:59 AM

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*not an actual doctor

Faith If we are too dull-witted to recognize such then how could scriptures written by dull-witted men help in the least? No.The scriptures are evidence of men who believe they have communicated with god but we are too dull witted to recognize god and creation so we cannot rely on the testimony of others who are dull-witted.

Because the scriptures record extraordinary interventions of God above and beyond the mere evidence He gives throughout creation. This goes a long way to overcome our dullwittedness, which was a big reason God did it this way. He performed miracles to demonstrate His reality that the most dullwitted couldn't ignore, and He spoke directly to many He chose for the purpose, to convey His words to the rest of us. It's a way for us fallen creatures to recover true knowledge of Him directly given BY him through his chosen messengers. Of course we're still dullwitted and it takes His intervention for us to grasp the meaning of the scriptures and many go on as if He'd done nothing to enlighten us. Have it your way.

Faith Miracles that are curiously absent in todays world.That a book that is trying to support a given view of god amongst many should lend foundation to itself is to be expected among men.Many miracles are recorded by many religions and none are able to reproduce at a given moment such a miracle.We have no way of verifying that these few men were not mentally impaired and having hallucinations or suffering from hunger induced delusions. How are we fallen? From an ideal that is represented by the myth of Eden? Have you ever noticed that the people he talks to are the only ones in the narratives who actually see him? Everybody else is clueless to these visions and enlightenments.A more likely possibilty is these people were themselves incapable of distinguishing fantasy from reality.

As Pascal said, It would be a good idea if people would learn something about the religion they are criticizing before they criticize it, but that is never the case.It's not as if there isn't a reason for there being no miracles in today's world. The miracles had a specific purpose, were given in a specific context for that purpose. God COULD give miracles any time but He doesn't, and a thorough knowledge of scripture would tell you why. I've been discussing this in the last couple of days with Mr. Ex Nihilo if you're interested, on the thread titled "Is God determined to allow no proof or evidence of His existence?"You prefer your view of the Bible with no interest in actually learning anything about it, so I will leave you to your opinion.

We have miracles happening today that many of them didn't have. We are witnessing the fulfillments to many of the predictions of the prophets of the days of the significant miracles, including the prophecies of Jesus and the apostles of the NT.As well, miracles are happening everyday on a smaller scale with individuals. These are generally not observed nor experienced by secularists who do not frequent Christian circles and who are not in sinct with the miraculous/supernatural; those who pshaw both the good and the evil supernatural. As for the evil miraculous, it's true also that those involved in it are the ones who generally actually witness it, though this is not always the case.Secularists, including secularist scientists are really very narrowminded to believe, after all the complex observable phenomena studied and observed in the universe, that there can't be other forms, varieties and degrees of intelligence and intelligent beings in the universe, undetected by mere physical science experiments and research. One must delve into the spiritual world if one expects to observe this and even us who do have no comprehension of the extensiveness of the supernatural which exists, both stated and implied by the Bible. They can acknowledge physical things like cosmological particles allegedly going in and out of existence, but ridicule us who believe another forms of intelligent beings can appear and disappear to humans (of their intelligent choice) as per the Biblical record.

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The immeasurable present is forever consuming the eternal future and extending the infinite past. buzsaw

I agree with you about small-scale "miracles" as believers often experience these supernatural provisions and interventions. And of course I agree that there is both a good and evil "supernatural" that science can't detect because it deals with the physical world.But I was only talking about the "significant" miracles as you call them, that are recorded in both Testaments. They've served their purpose and one purpose is that God's faithful believe in the testimony of them instead of demanding physical proof, as God wants us to "live by faith and not by sight" believing Him and His prophets and apostles.

[quote]They can acknowledge physical things like cosmological particles allegedly going in and out of existence, but ridicule us who believe another form[s] of intelligent beings can appear and disappear to humans (of their intelligent choice) as per the Biblical record.[/quote]Amen

I've been discussing this in another thread, so this appeals to me.First, as I stated over there, the only way to interpret anything written, is literally, because it is literature. Thus, I posit this web page as a basic summary of how should interpet biblical passages:
http://www.carm.org/bible/interpret.htmSecond, the entire bible, from Genesis to Reveltion is the story of Jesus the Christ and, to use a quote I like, "how to get to heave, not how the heavens go."General revelation (nature, the created universe) tells us there is a God, special revelation (scripture) tells us 1) what that God has done when he entered into time and space (history), 2)his character, who He is and what He is like and 3)what He is going to do.

I can show you the data that supports the conclusions about the particles. When it comes to the intelligent beings, you have nothing.Open-mindedness is good but you would have us be so open-minded that our brains would fall out.

Typo, I know, but I get to heave
As one who was there and did that, I praise science for showing me the light. Now, looking at the flights of fancy that pose as intelligent conversation between religionists, I wonder just how far one can wander down the road of irrationality before the real world brings you up with a jerk. While imagination has led to great discoveries and literature, it is a two-edged sword, deluding those who believe any and all unless they set strict limits on separation of 'what if' from 'I saw this in my mind so it must be true'.

Your post kinda got me thinking. It seems for some that it is all or nothing when it comes to the Bible. I don't know if this applies to you or not but it seems to apply to some.So much of the conversation on this forum ranges from those who believe that the entire Bible is to be taken as literal truth, to those who believe it to be a work of complete fiction. If I had to choose between those two extreme options I would probably opt for the latter.I'm not a scientist but I personally see no contradiction between science and the Christian faith. My personal belief is that science is exploring and discovering the natural world that God created. In my view scientists are doing an amazing job. I might point out that there are many eminent scientists who profess the Christian faith. I doubt very much however that many, if any, of them hold to YEC.This message has been edited by GDR, 06-11-2005 09:16 PM

You are absolutely correct. Science, pure and true, science, has nothing in contradiction with Christianity or the bible. (You can't seperate the two).Like you said, science is one area of knowledge and one way of discovering God's wonderful creation.

And we have science to thank for providing evidence of God`s wonderful creation of bacteria and viruses, those gifts that made life on earth so fulfilling, providing proof of a loving God.