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Author Topic:   Why does Richard Dawkins sing Christmas carols?
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 91 of 301 (441639)
12-18-2007 12:03 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by Taz
12-18-2007 11:47 AM


Re: Little atheist girls
Taz writes:
And if you like a real tree so much, why not plant one in front of your home and then decorate it every christmas?
Been there, tried that. When it was little, it was under two feet of snow. Now that it's forty feet tall, it's too hard to put the star on top.
More on topic, I'd rather have Richard Dawkins on my doorstep carolling than as a non-existent-Jehovah's unwitness.

Disclaimer: The above statement is without a doubt, the most LUDICROUS, IDIOTIC AND PERFECT EXAMPLE OF WILLFUL STUPIDITY, THAT I HAVE EVER SEEN OR HEARD.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by Taz, posted 12-18-2007 11:47 AM Taz has not replied

macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3927 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 92 of 301 (441640)
12-18-2007 12:08 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by Taz
12-18-2007 11:47 AM


Re: Little atheist girls
because then the inside of my house won't smell good.
the trees provided for christmas are grown on seasonal farms for the express purpose of being cut down for christmas (i feel like i'm having a domesticated animals discussion). i really would love to grow live trees, but most of the places i've been don't have nurseries, and just try to find a live christmas tree at lowes.
it's like the land outside my mother's neighborhood. it's owned by the papermill and leased to a hunting club. they grow pine trees on it. they cut them down periodically and replant. they clear the underbrush. everyone's happy. these aren't old growth forests or wild lands they're clearing.
and why kill a tree? well. i dunno. but generally they get taken to become mulch here. why kill flowers? survival of the one with the shears.

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CK
Member (Idle past 4127 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 93 of 301 (441646)
12-18-2007 12:43 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Kitsune
12-15-2007 7:15 AM


quote:
Does anyone else find this a wee bit hypocritical?
I guess I'm a hypocrite as well - I went to my niece's christmas due yesterday and sang along with the all the other parents and relatives - I guess I could have stamped my feet or stood in silence but to what end? I rather like singing and God already knows I don't believe in him, so what's the problem.
quote:
What does Christmas mean to non-Christians, and can it really have any kind of deep meaning?
It means a bit of time and space to reflect on people and things I wouldn't normally reflect on.

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Replies to this message:
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Silent H
Member (Idle past 5819 days)
Posts: 7405
From: satellite of love
Joined: 12-11-2002


Message 94 of 301 (441660)
12-18-2007 1:23 PM
Reply to: Message 93 by CK
12-18-2007 12:43 PM


I rather like singing and God already knows I don't believe in him, so what's the problem.
I agree that there is no real problem with atheists (or any nonXian) enjoying the festivities of recent Xianity. Why not?
But I do have to question Dawkins in specific. When he maintains that its lunacy and produces so much evil, turning around and calling onesself a "cultural Xian" and caroling, seems a bit like calling onesself a "cultural Lunatic" and going about drooling and howling like a mad person.

h
"Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing." - Robert E. Howard

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Replies to this message:
 Message 95 by macaroniandcheese, posted 12-18-2007 2:34 PM Silent H has replied

macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3927 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 95 of 301 (441685)
12-18-2007 2:34 PM
Reply to: Message 94 by Silent H
12-18-2007 1:23 PM


But I do have to question Dawkins in specific. When he maintains that its lunacy and produces so much evil, turning around and calling onesself a "cultural Xian" and caroling, seems a bit like calling onesself a "cultural Lunatic" and going about drooling and howling like a mad person.
i completely agree. he accuses moderates of making the world safe for extremists... what is he doing?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by Silent H, posted 12-18-2007 1:23 PM Silent H has replied

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Silent H
Member (Idle past 5819 days)
Posts: 7405
From: satellite of love
Joined: 12-11-2002


Message 96 of 301 (441688)
12-18-2007 2:39 PM
Reply to: Message 95 by macaroniandcheese
12-18-2007 2:34 PM


he accuses moderates of making the world safe for extremists... what is he doing?
Dawkins: Look, I just like wearing the suicide belt sometimes. It looks good it feels good, I don't say people can't wear them. And yes I sometimes take a gun to places I know abortions are being carried out, but its not like I believe their god is telling me to do these things, I'm just sharing in the joy of these cultural experiences.
{AbE: just to be clear... heheheh}
Edited by Silent H, : heheheh

h
"Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing." - Robert E. Howard

This message is a reply to:
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bluegenes
Member (Idle past 2476 days)
Posts: 3119
From: U.K.
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 97 of 301 (441707)
12-18-2007 3:14 PM
Reply to: Message 87 by Kitsune
12-18-2007 11:38 AM


LindaLou writes:
bluegenes writes:
Are you sure you're not confusing comforting self-delusion with enlightenment, Lucy?
When you look beyond science, do you prefer crystal balls, mediums or tarot cards?
No need for more derisory comments thanks, there are enough here already.
It was a serious question, and neither you nor the person I addressed it to will be able to explain how you can "look beyond science". So both of you have replied to my question with obvious evasion.
LindaLou writes:
Dogmatic skepticism is a position too, and those who choose it as their world view are in as much danger of deluding themselves -- by ridiculing and ignoring the valid experiences of others and potentially of their own -- as anyone else.
I'm not a dogmatic skeptic. We might well be living in a multi-dimensional multiverse in which things way beyond our comprehension exist, for all I know. But some people have a tendency to latch on to magic or supernatural beliefs very easily, and are very gullible. If you're going to describe those who require evidence before actively believing in something as "dogmatic" you're really just describing sanity as dogmatic.
Closer to the topic, it's interesting that you want to discuss Dawkins, his Xmas carols and his beliefs without really knowing exactly what they are.
How, incidentally, do you look beyond science for enlightenment?
(That's "enlightenment", not "personal content").

This message is a reply to:
 Message 87 by Kitsune, posted 12-18-2007 11:38 AM Kitsune has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 114 by LucyTheApe, posted 12-19-2007 12:24 AM bluegenes has replied
 Message 116 by Kitsune, posted 12-19-2007 1:53 AM bluegenes has replied

molbiogirl
Member (Idle past 2641 days)
Posts: 1909
From: MO
Joined: 06-06-2007


Message 98 of 301 (441722)
12-18-2007 3:45 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Kitsune
12-15-2007 7:15 AM


Does anyone else find this a wee bit hypocritical?
Using this crystal clear logic, I offer the following.
Things an atheist should not do:
1. Celebrate xmas
2. Celebrate easter
3. Celebrate Halloween
4. Curse (god dammit/jesus christ/hell/etc.)
5. Step inside a church for any reason
6. Read any book that has its origins in religion
7. Use any word that has its origins in religion (bless/holy/heaven/devil/etc.)
8. Take Sunday off from work
And that is just a partial list of the xian restrictions!
There's a list for EACH of the other religions!

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 99 by Chiroptera, posted 12-18-2007 3:51 PM molbiogirl has not replied
 Message 101 by bluegenes, posted 12-18-2007 4:24 PM molbiogirl has not replied
 Message 103 by alacrity fitzhugh, posted 12-18-2007 5:53 PM molbiogirl has not replied
 Message 104 by jar, posted 12-18-2007 6:19 PM molbiogirl has replied

Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 99 of 301 (441725)
12-18-2007 3:51 PM
Reply to: Message 98 by molbiogirl
12-18-2007 3:45 PM


4. Curse (god dammit/jesus christ/hell/etc.)
Okay, I'm not going to be an atheist any more.

It has become fashionable on the left and in Western Europe to compare the Bush administration to the Nazis. The comparison is not without some superficial merit. In both cases the government is run by a small gang of snickering, stupid thugs whose vision of paradise is full of explosions and beautifully designed prisons. -- Matt Taibbi

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 Message 98 by molbiogirl, posted 12-18-2007 3:45 PM molbiogirl has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 100 by kuresu, posted 12-18-2007 4:15 PM Chiroptera has not replied

kuresu
Member (Idle past 2512 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 100 of 301 (441731)
12-18-2007 4:15 PM
Reply to: Message 99 by Chiroptera
12-18-2007 3:51 PM


Amen to that.
Seriously, half the reason I say god damn it is because of the reaction you'll get in the south/mountains. Now I say it out of habit*.
Besides, what is so wrong with asking an entity who doesn't exist to damn something for me? I get to shirk responsibility (after all, isn't that the whole point of relative morality?).
*That would suggest that I am a nun, and they do like to dress me in a white jacket. Too bad I can't move my arms.

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bluegenes
Member (Idle past 2476 days)
Posts: 3119
From: U.K.
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 101 of 301 (441735)
12-18-2007 4:24 PM
Reply to: Message 98 by molbiogirl
12-18-2007 3:45 PM


mobiogirl writes:
4. Curse (god dammit/jesus christ/hell/etc.)
When Christians stop using words like Wednesday and Thursday (I'm sure they're all polytheistic pagans at heart) I'll agree to that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by molbiogirl, posted 12-18-2007 3:45 PM molbiogirl has not replied

alacrity fitzhugh
Member (Idle past 4288 days)
Posts: 194
Joined: 02-10-2004


Message 102 of 301 (441767)
12-18-2007 5:53 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Kitsune
12-15-2007 7:15 AM


Does anyone else find this a wee bit hypocritical?
No, I could care less if Dawkins sings carols, puts up a tree and decorates it, gives out presents, or even tries kissing under the mistletoe.
If it bothers you then deal with it

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Replies to this message:
 Message 105 by Silent H, posted 12-18-2007 6:21 PM alacrity fitzhugh has replied

alacrity fitzhugh
Member (Idle past 4288 days)
Posts: 194
Joined: 02-10-2004


Message 103 of 301 (441768)
12-18-2007 5:53 PM
Reply to: Message 98 by molbiogirl
12-18-2007 3:45 PM


And that is just a partial list of the xian restrictions!
1. Celebrate xmas
I don't my wife and children and parents do.
2. Celebrate easter
See 1
3. Celebrate Halloween
Why did you include a Celtic religious holiday in the xian restrictions?
4. Curse (god dammit/jesus christ/hell/etc.)
First-saying goddammit or hell has a more forceful tone than 'heck' or 'gosh darn that hammer hurt my thumb'. Second if your an atheist then your not cursing.
5. Step inside a church for any reason
Seeing as how may 13 year old sings in the church choir at my parents church, should I not be going to show her my support and love. Also, having been to churches and religious grounds in Europe ( Notre Dame, west minister abbey, stone hedge) this would be precluding yourself from a lot of human history Like seeing the Sistine chapel and all the works of art created by artist down through the ages that are only able to be viewed at religious institutions.
6. Read any book that has its origins in religion
The only time I read anything from any one of the many version of the bible is so I can follow the debate.
7. Use any word that has its origins in religion (bless/holy/heaven/devil/etc.)
Then do not use the word good.
8. Take Sunday off from work
I work on Sunday also christmas and easter etc.My days of are Thursday and Friday night. I have worked at jobs that the job site was closed on Sunday, is this going to be held against me

This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by molbiogirl, posted 12-18-2007 3:45 PM molbiogirl has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 104 of 301 (441777)
12-18-2007 6:19 PM
Reply to: Message 98 by molbiogirl
12-18-2007 3:45 PM


How sad and pitiful you seem.

Immigration has been a problem Since 1607!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by molbiogirl, posted 12-18-2007 3:45 PM molbiogirl has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 108 by molbiogirl, posted 12-18-2007 7:22 PM jar has replied

Silent H
Member (Idle past 5819 days)
Posts: 7405
From: satellite of love
Joined: 12-11-2002


Message 105 of 301 (441778)
12-18-2007 6:21 PM
Reply to: Message 102 by alacrity fitzhugh
12-18-2007 5:53 PM


No, I could care less if Dawkins sings carols,
I could care less whether he does anything at all, but that is not the same as answering a question if it is hypocritical... which was the question.
I happen to agree there is no hypocrisy for an atheist to do something like that, but as I've said upthread when you beat xianity and theism with an ugly stick as much as he does, it is a tad askew to announce onesself a cultural xian and join in the rejoicing.
It doesn't keep me up at nights... and I doubt it bothers LL that much either. But it was an interesting way to raise the question.

h
"Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing." - Robert E. Howard

This message is a reply to:
 Message 102 by alacrity fitzhugh, posted 12-18-2007 5:53 PM alacrity fitzhugh has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 106 by alacrity fitzhugh, posted 12-18-2007 6:47 PM Silent H has replied
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