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Author Topic:   Biblical questions
Prince Lucianus
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 8 (128431)
07-28-2004 5:21 PM


I like to propose a topic where people can ask a simple biblical question which must be answered in 4 posts.
So, it should go like this:
1- A proposes problem
2- B answers question.
3- A may ask for a specific clarification or specify his problems he has with the answer given
4- B or (x) anyone else has one final chance to answer A's problem with his specified problem.
Then, a new question can be asked without 5 pages confronting one problem with only insults at page 4 and 5.
If this is too much to ask, then I consider this topic dropped as soon as I get an answer to my question:
Which of these anointments, describes his pre burial anointment:
Mathew 26:6-13; In the house of Simon the Leper (In Bethany), Anointed by an anonymous woman. An unamed disciple complains about the waste. The ointment was poured over his head and came out of an alabaster jar.
Mark: In the house of Simon the Leper (In Bethany). Anointed by an anonymous woman. Someone complained about the waste. The ointment was poured over his head and came out of an alabaster jar.
Luke 7:36-50; In the house of a Pharisee (In Galilee) called Simon. Anointed by a sinful woman. The Pharisee makes a complain about something else. Tears first which she dried with her hair, ointment which is poured over his feet which came out of an alabatser jar.
John 12:1-11; In the house of Lazarus probably or anonymous (In Bethany). Anointed by Mary
Judas complains about the waste. The ointment poured over his feet which was a pint of pure nard.
These seem rather contradicting.
Lucy
This message has been edited by Prince Lucianus, 07-31-2004 03:26 AM

Bible
Search Results
"Death & Dead" were found 827 times in 751 verses.
Thats a Whole Lotta Suffering
"Dear God, I understand that if I fail to believe in you, I'll burn in Hell for all eternity. Thanks for being such a good sport about it." -- Dr. Oswald Pratt

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by coffee_addict, posted 07-31-2004 1:39 AM Prince Lucianus has not replied
 Message 4 by jar, posted 07-31-2004 1:03 PM Prince Lucianus has replied

  
AdminNosy
Administrator
Posts: 4754
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Joined: 11-11-2003


Message 2 of 8 (128433)
07-28-2004 5:25 PM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

  
coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 476 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 3 of 8 (129076)
07-31-2004 1:39 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Prince Lucianus
07-28-2004 5:21 PM


Bump
I think this is an interesting topic. Since I'm not a bible expert, I'd rather sit back and watch this thread grow... if it will grow at all.

The Laminator
For goodness's sake, please vote Democrat this November!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Prince Lucianus, posted 07-28-2004 5:21 PM Prince Lucianus has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 4 of 8 (129125)
07-31-2004 1:03 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Prince Lucianus
07-28-2004 5:21 PM


I have always read these passages as two seperate tales. Matthew, Mark and John are speaking of one event, trying to serve one purpose, while the passage in Luke is entirely different and illustrating a whole different subject.
The passages in Matthew, Mark and John are meant as indicators of what was to follow, a warning of the upcoming crucifixion. That Matthew and Mark are very close is not surprising, it has long been believed that Matthew, Mark and Luke were derived from earlier oral traditions. But there are notable differences as well.
There are also the Gospels Q and M, known only by extrapolation from the content of the others.
Remember, all of these were written long after the incidents happened, certainly a quarter century later, maybe as much as a century and a quarter later. The styles of Matthew, Luke and Mark are based around short parables and one-liners, closely follow the Judaic tradition and all deal primarily with Jesus evangelical period.
John is quite different and most likely came from an entirely different tradition. Even the style of John is different and it comes across far more as a lecture or essay than the narative style of the others.
The tale from Luke, as I said above, is entirely different. It is not part of the story leading to the crucifixion, but rather a parable related to charity and forgivness.
Here is the passage from Luke 7:
quote:
36 And one of the Pharisees desired him that he would eat with him. And he went into the Pharisee's house, and sat down to meat.
37 And, behold, a woman in the city, which was a sinner, when she knew that Jesus sat at meat in the Pharisee's house, brought an alabaster box of ointment,
38 And stood at his feet behind him weeping, and began to wash his feet with tears, and did wipe them with the hairs of her head, and kissed his feet, and anointed them with the ointment.
39 Now when the Pharisee which had bidden him saw it, he spake within himself, saying, This man, if he were a prophet, would have known who and what manner of woman this is that toucheth him: for she is a sinner.
40 And Jesus answering said unto him, Simon, I have somewhat to say unto thee. And he saith, Master, say on.
41 There was a certain creditor which had two debtors: the one owed five hundred pence, and the other fifty.
42 And when they had nothing to pay, he frankly forgave them both. Tell me therefore, which of them will love him most?
43 Simon answered and said, I suppose that he, to whom he forgave most. And he said unto him, Thou hast rightly judged.
44 And he turned to the woman, and said unto Simon, Seest thou this woman? I entered into thine house, thou gavest me no water for my feet: but she hath washed my feet with tears, and wiped them with the hairs of her head.
45 Thou gavest me no kiss: but this woman since the time I came in hath not ceased to kiss my feet.
46 My head with oil thou didst not anoint: but this woman hath anointed my feet with ointment.
47 Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.
48 And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven.
49 And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also?
50 And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.
As you can see, this is a totally different subject and meant to teach a lesson instead of being a precursor of what is to follow.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Prince Lucianus, posted 07-28-2004 5:21 PM Prince Lucianus has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by Prince Lucianus, posted 07-31-2004 1:11 PM jar has replied

  
Prince Lucianus
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 8 (129126)
07-31-2004 1:11 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by jar
07-31-2004 1:03 PM


I can live with that. Unfortunately answered by a non-literalist
Just one more thing, I knew about Q, but have not yet heard of M.
We're Luke and Mathew using him (like they used Mark and Q) or is it used by others?
Then I'm finished.
Lucy

Bible
Search Results
"Death & Dead" were found 827 times in 751 verses.
Thats a Whole Lotta Suffering
"Dear God, I understand that if I fail to believe in you, I'll burn in Hell for all eternity. Thanks for being such a good sport about it." -- Dr. Oswald Pratt

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by jar, posted 07-31-2004 1:03 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by jar, posted 07-31-2004 1:26 PM Prince Lucianus has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 6 of 8 (129128)
07-31-2004 1:26 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Prince Lucianus
07-31-2004 1:11 PM


You need to remember that Q and M are inferred, we don't have any hard documentation that either reallly existed. They could be pointing to the older oral tradition instead of specific documents.
Also, there is nothing firm about the order in which the Gospels were written. It, like source, is simply based on comparing the different content and styles. The accepted idea is that Mark is the older while Matthew and Luke were written independantly, and without knowledge of each other, but both having access to Mark.
There are many other Gospels out there. There is James, Thomas, Mary, the infancy gospels of James and Thomas as well as scraps of others. Of the four currently accepted Gospels, John is the most contentious. For a long time it was considered heretical and is still the source for much angst among many Christians.
Sorry that I got to it before the literalists. I'll stay out of future questions if you'd like.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Prince Lucianus, posted 07-31-2004 1:11 PM Prince Lucianus has not replied

  
Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3974
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 7 of 8 (131675)
08-08-2004 4:20 PM


Topic needs better (more precise) title
Prince Lucianus, or others, please make suggestion(s). An admin can edit the title.
Adminnemooseus

Comments on moderation procedures? - Go to
Change in Moderation?
or
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Replies to this message:
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jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 8 of 8 (131676)
08-08-2004 4:23 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Adminnemooseus
08-08-2004 4:20 PM


Re: Topic needs better (more precise) title
How about "Structured four step response to Biblical questions"?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Adminnemooseus, posted 08-08-2004 4:20 PM Adminnemooseus has not replied

  
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