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Author Topic:   Where should there be "The right to refuse service"?
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


(1)
Message 226 of 928 (729129)
06-05-2014 6:50 PM
Reply to: Message 214 by Taq
06-05-2014 5:05 PM


Let he who is without sin deny the first wedding cake
Where is the law of God that forbids christians from baking cakes for gay weddings?
Matthew 5 and Luke 7:
quote:
And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.
Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.
Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
quote:
The Son of man is come eating and drinking; and ye say, Behold a gluttonous man, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners!
But wisdom is justified of all her children.
And one of the Pharisees desired him that he would eat with him. And he went into the Pharisee's house, and sat down to meat.
And, behold, a woman in the city, which was a sinner, when she knew that Jesus sat at meat in the Pharisee's house, brought an alabaster box of ointment,
And stood at his feet behind him weeping, and began to wash his feet with tears, and did wipe them with the hairs of her head, and kissed his feet, and anointed them with the ointment.
Now when the Pharisee which had bidden him saw it, he spake within himself, saying, This man, if he were a prophet, would have known who and what manner of woman this is that toucheth him: for she is a sinner.
And Jesus answering said unto him, Simon, I have somewhat to say unto thee. And he saith, Master, say on.
There was a certain creditor which had two debtors: the one owed five hundred pence, and the other fifty.
And when they had nothing to pay, he frankly forgave them both. Tell me therefore, which of them will love him most?
Simon answered and said, I suppose that he, to whom he forgave most. And he said unto him, Thou hast rightly judged.
And he turned to the woman, and said unto Simon, Seest thou this woman? I entered into thine house, thou gavest me no water for my feet: but she hath washed my feet with tears, and wiped them with the hairs of her head.
Thou gavest me no kiss: but this woman since the time I came in hath not ceased to kiss my feet.
My head with oil thou didst not anoint: but this woman hath anointed my feet with ointment.
Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.
It's pretty clear from a naive child-like reading that Jesus wants us to select arbitrary sinners, some of whom may be full of love, and find ways of attempting to scorn them using 'the Law' as our reasoning, and that we should never ever endorse, allow intimate contact with or forgive a sinner. We should kick them out of the house so the decent people can praise Jesus who was so moral he told shopkeepers to deny service to taxmen, Samaritans, lepers and prostitutes in the cases where the service may be construed as endorsing sinful behaviour.
Seriously, you should really read between the lines, very closely the Bible!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 214 by Taq, posted 06-05-2014 5:05 PM Taq has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 227 of 928 (729130)
06-05-2014 7:00 PM


Interesting Poll
Racism Lives On Under the Cover of 'Religious Freedom'
In an interesting new survey, the Public Religion Research Institute found that 10 percent of Americans believe business owners should be able to refuse to serve black people if they see that as a violation of their religious beliefs. [...] And on other issues of belief and lifestyle, Americans are also more willing to accept discrimination. Fifteen percent of PRRI's respondents, including 19 percent of Republicans and 21 percent of white evangelicals, said it's okay to deny services to atheists. And 12 percent said the same about Jews.

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 228 of 928 (729132)
06-05-2014 8:20 PM
Reply to: Message 225 by Straggler
06-05-2014 5:44 PM


Re: Denial of service and not the person?
Sad situation in the once-Christian English-speaking world.
But the bottom line remains: Require me by law to anything that supports gay marriage and I'll disobey that law and take the consequences.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 225 by Straggler, posted 06-05-2014 5:44 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 238 by PaulK, posted 06-06-2014 1:53 AM Faith has replied
 Message 260 by Straggler, posted 06-06-2014 8:30 AM Faith has not replied

  
ramoss
Member (Idle past 612 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 229 of 928 (729133)
06-05-2014 8:22 PM
Reply to: Message 155 by Faith
06-05-2014 8:39 AM


Re: Denial of service and not the person?
I don't see any evidence that either your position, or the position of the terrorist is 'God's will'.'

This message is a reply to:
 Message 155 by Faith, posted 06-05-2014 8:39 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 233 by Faith, posted 06-05-2014 8:42 PM ramoss has replied

  
ramoss
Member (Idle past 612 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 230 of 928 (729134)
06-05-2014 8:22 PM
Reply to: Message 157 by Faith
06-05-2014 8:53 AM


Re: Denial of service and not the person?
I am sure you can quote where it says 'A man shall not marry a man, nor a woman marry a woman'.
Please, provide that quote.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 157 by Faith, posted 06-05-2014 8:53 AM Faith has not replied

  
ramoss
Member (Idle past 612 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 231 of 928 (729135)
06-05-2014 8:25 PM
Reply to: Message 166 by Faith
06-05-2014 2:30 PM


Re: Denial of service and not the person?
Oh boy, you won't refer to the specific scriptures.. because, you know why faith??
You know that your claim does not hold up to scrutiny, particularly if you read the claim in context. Context means so much, yet, I noticed many religious conservatives are unable to put more than a few sentences together in a row for their theology. They will knit a sentence here, and a sentence there, all out of context, and then claim 'it's the Word of God'.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 166 by Faith, posted 06-05-2014 2:30 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 232 by Faith, posted 06-05-2014 8:41 PM ramoss has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 232 of 928 (729137)
06-05-2014 8:41 PM
Reply to: Message 231 by ramoss
06-05-2014 8:25 PM


Re: Denial of service and not the person?
I already referred to the specific scriptures, more than once. Your expectations do not determine how a Christian reads the Bible and acts on it.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 231 by ramoss, posted 06-05-2014 8:25 PM ramoss has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 259 by Theodoric, posted 06-06-2014 8:29 AM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 233 of 928 (729138)
06-05-2014 8:42 PM
Reply to: Message 229 by ramoss
06-05-2014 8:22 PM


Re: Denial of service and not the person?
I will act on what I believe whether you see it or not.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 229 by ramoss, posted 06-05-2014 8:22 PM ramoss has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 234 by ramoss, posted 06-05-2014 11:46 PM Faith has replied
 Message 239 by dwise1, posted 06-06-2014 2:17 AM Faith has replied

  
ramoss
Member (Idle past 612 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 234 of 928 (729139)
06-05-2014 11:46 PM
Reply to: Message 233 by Faith
06-05-2014 8:42 PM


Re: Denial of service and not the person?
I am sure you do.
The question is .. are you acting rationally, compassionatel or consistent with the books you claim are holy.
Having read those books, and seeing your behavior, I see a lot of discrepancies.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 233 by Faith, posted 06-05-2014 8:42 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 235 by Faith, posted 06-06-2014 12:07 AM ramoss has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 235 of 928 (729140)
06-06-2014 12:07 AM
Reply to: Message 234 by ramoss
06-05-2014 11:46 PM


Re: Denial of service and not the person?
By calling good evil and evil good [Isaiah 5:20] you give yet another excuse for the fascist state to persecute Christians. Once again, we'll take the consequences of your evil laws.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 234 by ramoss, posted 06-05-2014 11:46 PM ramoss has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 261 by Theodoric, posted 06-06-2014 8:32 AM Faith has not replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 236 of 928 (729141)
06-06-2014 12:10 AM
Reply to: Message 182 by Faith
06-05-2014 3:43 PM


Re: Denial of service and not the person?
Righto. Punish us for our Biblical beliefs then, that's what you want to do.
I don't think anyone wants to punish you for your beliefs.

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 182 by Faith, posted 06-05-2014 3:43 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 237 by Faith, posted 06-06-2014 12:21 AM Jon has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 237 of 928 (729142)
06-06-2014 12:21 AM
Reply to: Message 236 by Jon
06-06-2014 12:10 AM


Re: Denial of service and not the person?
No they want to punish us for acting on them.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 236 by Jon, posted 06-06-2014 12:10 AM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 321 by Jon, posted 06-10-2014 8:29 AM Faith has not replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 238 of 928 (729144)
06-06-2014 1:53 AM
Reply to: Message 228 by Faith
06-05-2014 8:20 PM


Re: Denial of service and not the person?
Answer me this simple question Faith.
On what legal basis should the court decide that it is wrong for a segregationist to refuse to provide a cake for a mixed-race wedding but right for one of your "Christians" to refuse to bake a cake for a gay wedding ?
I'm not asking for YOUR rationalisations. I'm asking for the basis that the courts should use.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 228 by Faith, posted 06-05-2014 8:20 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 240 by Faith, posted 06-06-2014 2:17 AM PaulK has replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


(1)
Message 239 of 928 (729145)
06-06-2014 2:17 AM
Reply to: Message 233 by Faith
06-05-2014 8:42 PM


Re: Denial of service and not the person?
I will act on what I believe whether you see it or not.
Yes, we see that and know that all too well. Like all other believers of all kinds of theologies and ideologies, you will act on what you believe. Regardless of how utterly and completely wrong your beliefs may be, exactly that same as with all other believers of all theologies and ideologies. You are no different in this regard than a jihadist, a Bolshevik anarchist, or a Catholic.
Your beliefs have nothing to do with Christianity, but rather with your fallible human misunderstanding of Christianity. Your beliefs have nothing to do with what the Bible says, but rather with your fallible human misunderstanding of what the Bible says. Your beliefs have nothing to do with any actual god or gods, but rather with your fallible human misunderstanding of fallible human concept about one particular human idea of a god.
Of course, you will insist that we must accept your misunderstandings as true, but your record informs us otherwise. After all, we cannot test your claims about God and other aspects of the supernatural, since the supernatural is outside our ken and our ability to perceive and test and verify. But you have been so consistently wrong about things that we are able to test that there is no conceivable reason for us to believe you about things that we cannot test.
As much as you have demonstrated how much you hate reality, you still need to deal with reality. You have expressed your disdain for diversity, but diversity is part of our shared reality. Reality is that our society is very diverse. Reality is that our society includes a wide spectrum of religious beliefs and traditions. Reality is that we all need to live together peacefully and get along with each other, peacefully. And reality is that society's rules and expectations of us need to promote behavior that promotes peaceful coexistence and discourage behavior that threatens peaceful coexistence.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 233 by Faith, posted 06-05-2014 8:42 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 241 by Faith, posted 06-06-2014 2:20 AM dwise1 has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 240 of 928 (729146)
06-06-2014 2:17 AM
Reply to: Message 238 by PaulK
06-06-2014 1:53 AM


Re: Denial of service and not the person?
That race is a legitimate protected class, homosexuality is not.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 238 by PaulK, posted 06-06-2014 1:53 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 246 by PaulK, posted 06-06-2014 2:41 AM Faith has replied

  
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