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Author Topic:   Satan and prayer
sidelined
Member (Idle past 5907 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 1 of 54 (139395)
09-03-2004 12:21 AM


I found this interesting quotaton by Mark Twain and I would like to know if Christians agree or disagree that Satan is worthy of being prayed for and if any christian here has?
But who prays for Satan? Who in eighteen centuries, has had the common humanity to pray for the one sinner that needed it most, our one fellow and brother who most needed a friend yet had not a single one, the one sinner among us all who had the highest and clearest right to every Christian's daily and nightly prayers, for the plain and unassailable reason that his was the first and greatest need, he being among sinners the supremest?
- Mark Twain's Autobiography
To the admin.Perhaps this should go in free for all
This message has been edited by sidelined, 09-03-2004 07:51 AM

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Message 2 of 54 (139636)
09-03-2004 3:44 PM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

  
Trump won 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1239 days)
Posts: 1928
Joined: 01-12-2004


Message 3 of 54 (139661)
09-03-2004 4:23 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by sidelined
09-03-2004 12:21 AM


Jesus said love thy enemies, I think Satan is worthy of being prayed for, we sin as he does and I don't think we should be like the man which the king pardoned and not pardon a fellow sinner. I found a site it had an email with a few christians talking about it. I'm glad for that enlightenment. I'm busy all the time fighting Satan and his ways and honestly, have never prayed for him. I never really thought about it before either.
This message has been edited by CHRIS PORTEUS jr, 09-03-2004 03:26 PM

-porcelain

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mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4752
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 4 of 54 (139664)
09-03-2004 4:31 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by sidelined
09-03-2004 12:21 AM


You see, we usually get told; "Look at all the bad in the world", and then, "why doesn't God act". Yet, the most overlooked cause of evil (according to the bible) - is satan.
Now, he was a "murderer from the beginning".
So, it's not that we dismiss what happens in the world, we see, oh yes. And we also "see" what evil is being done. For example, the recent horrors, IMHO, are attributable to evil. We fight a spiritual battle, and "sufficient to the day is the evil thereof". Now we know who isn't sorry, because there is evil everyday. Should you hit me and I say "forgiven" yet you say "I am not sorry" - where is the effect of remission? Have you not counted me a fool?
Nevertheless, I have contemplated pitying satan, but since I am not God - what judgement of mine will count? Can I possibly contemplate the evil satan is responsible for? Oh - I forgot, it's God's fault according to the world, and satan escapes blame, yet in this topic - the world says "pity and pray" for the true guilty one.
How is it that Christ suffering is discounted, example; "why couldn't he have ordered pizzas for our forgiveness", yet satan, doer of all evil atrocities (these atrocities pointed out daily as God's fault by some none-believers) - but satan, he is one who should be prayed for.
Well, sorry - but at the moment I'm praying for innocent children who are presently being killed, so I might find time for satan some other day.

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Trump won 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1239 days)
Posts: 1928
Joined: 01-12-2004


Message 5 of 54 (139669)
09-03-2004 4:38 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by mike the wiz
09-03-2004 4:31 PM


Yeah I'm not sure though, but I do think it's a waste to pray for Satan now that I think about it. Thanks Mike
This message has been edited by CHRIS PORTEUS jr, 09-03-2004 03:40 PM

-porcelain

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mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4752
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 6 of 54 (139674)
09-03-2004 4:43 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Trump won
09-03-2004 4:38 PM


Hi Chris. Good to see ya again.
Not that it's my business ofcourse, if you want to pray for him fair enough, I wouldn't have a judgement about that. Yet, I'd rather pray for his victims.

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Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3047 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 7 of 54 (139693)
09-03-2004 5:17 PM


Anyone who prays for Satan is a fool who is totally ignorant of what the Bible says.
The Bible says Satan will spend eternity in hell for betraying God.
Satan is judged and God will never change His mind.
The Book of Enoch says Satan will periodically petition God for pardon throughout enternity.
God will respond in the negative.
I can't help but to laugh at the rhetoric of the kid who justifies praying for Satan because Jesus said to pray for your enemies.
rhetoric: misuse of logic to support a claim.

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mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4752
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 8 of 54 (139702)
09-03-2004 5:41 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Cold Foreign Object
09-03-2004 5:17 PM


Hey come on Willowtree, isn't that a lil harsh?
It's quite easy to pity/pray for someone. Afterall, we are all also of sin. It is only that by Christ we are forgiven. Even Christ says "those who visit me in prison etc.." Aren't some in prison murderers like satan?
Therefore, it is possible for a goodly person to pitty even the most evil of people. Indeed, farbeit from foolishness, but rather - it is wisdom. For only a "kid" of goodly and friendly nature could pity the most evil. Being so innocent as to be ignorant of the nature of evil. I would have you not know much of evil, but rather good.
There is no beast that knows but some touch of pity, but I have none, and therefore am no beast. I am worse - a man. And now, a plagiarizer.

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Trump won 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1239 days)
Posts: 1928
Joined: 01-12-2004


Message 9 of 54 (139725)
09-03-2004 6:35 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Cold Foreign Object
09-03-2004 5:17 PM


Yeah I guess you're right. I happen to think there is no definite answer though, I dunno. I never have but the teachings of Christ seem to support this, well I guess not since the devil isn't human, he is the entity, he is evil. Got any more thoughts on this praying for devil thing willowtree?

-porcelain

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ramoss
Member (Idle past 611 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 10 of 54 (140213)
09-06-2004 12:58 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by mike the wiz
09-03-2004 4:31 PM


I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things." Isaiah 45:7

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ramoss
Member (Idle past 611 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 11 of 54 (140216)
09-06-2004 1:01 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by Trump won
09-03-2004 6:35 PM


The concept of 'Satan' as the devil is a rather late exogensis that was added on after the first century C.E.
In the Jewish religion, angels , of which Satan is one, have no free will, and could not rebel against god. The purpose of Satan is to provide oportunities so that people have the opportunitity to do wrong, and therefore resisting temptation, supposedly become more sanctified and closer to god.
Of course, many also interpret 'satan' as a mere allegory.

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Trump won 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1239 days)
Posts: 1928
Joined: 01-12-2004


Message 12 of 54 (140412)
09-06-2004 3:53 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by ramoss
09-06-2004 1:01 AM


quote:
Of course, many also interpret 'satan' as a mere allegory.
This can be a weak way of defining some biblical passages

-porcelain

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ramoss
Member (Idle past 611 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 13 of 54 (140946)
09-08-2004 12:24 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by Trump won
09-06-2004 3:53 PM


It doesn't mean that it is inaccurate though.

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Gastric ReFlux
Inactive Member


Message 14 of 54 (140956)
09-08-2004 12:49 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Cold Foreign Object
09-03-2004 5:17 PM


quote:
The Bible says Satan will spend eternity in hell for betraying God.
What if Satan chose to accept Jesus Christ as his personal savior?

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mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4752
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 15 of 54 (140965)
09-08-2004 1:54 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by ramoss
09-06-2004 12:58 AM


May I request you read the rest?
He makes peace, yes. - Oh if thou hadst only hearkened unto my commandments, then your peace would have been as a river.
He creates evil, yes. -I shall visit evil upon you according to the fruit of your doings.
So, your quote is over-used yet mis-understood. It's not a big deal like you guys make it out to be. Infact, many warnings are given to the wicked, through whom God can "use" another wicked. Example; Jeremiah's warning.
If an evil came upon Job, yet it was satan who asked God to do this evil. If an event of natural comes upon you, I suppose that an "evil" might have came upon you. Now, what is the difference with your quote? Is it not what God has always said? Yet he shall not suffer the righteouss to be removed. --> Job was increased, and there couldn't be found an evil to be visited upon him, that could be justified. Therefore, all unjustifiable evil that comes upon us, - we now know it is of satan.
Thankyou.

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