Is Jesus of 'Cursed Lineage'

Jesus is God the Son, he was before the world was, all things were made through him, the wisemen saw his star leading them and stop at where the Lord Jesus laid (he is both the son of man and the Son of God)kjv rev 22:16, they worshipped the Lord Jesus, because he was Emmanuel, God within the body made of a woman and made according to the law. kjv galatians 4:4You too can become the sons of God, thru belief in Jesus, when you become a new creature, however your DNA doesn't change, like your suggesting that when the spirit of the Word (the Son of God) became flesh. It says in essense that when you become born again its not of the will of the flesh, not of blood, nor the will of man, but of God.I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and teh bright and morning star. kjv Revelation 22:16Behold, a Virgin shall be with child, and shall, bring froth a Son, and they sanll call his name EEmmanuel, which interpreted is God with us. kjv Matthew 1:23For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. kjv john 3:17In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. john 1:1-2The Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,(and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father.)full of grace and truth. kjv John 1:14But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name. kjv John 1:14 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. kjv john 1:13And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. kjv John 17:5And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. kjv John 17:11

I thought that quite interesting that if the mother is jewish and the father is a gentile the child would not be considered a bastard. Though Joesph was Jewish too, so you have nipped the bastard thought in the bud. Thank You!Runtime ErrorWho was Joseph's Father?
At first glance, Matthew and Luke appear to be in disagreement as to who Joseph's father was. Matthew states he was the son of Jacob, while Luke states he was the son of Heli. Fortunately, an unlikely source has aided scholars in unraveling this mystery. Moreover, designating a son-in-law as a son had scriptural precedent. Refer to Son in Jewish Genealogies for more on this topic.
Thus, Joseph was the son of Jacob, and the son-in-law of Heli.This message has been edited by Tom, 01-03-2005 11:03 AM

Hi Tom, A source that was written about 400 years AFTER the Gospels is hardly convincing.This is just a 5th century attempt to explain away a problem. It is hardly evidence.This is not really that much different to citing answersingenesis as evidence that Mary was heli's daughter.I would be more impressed if Jesus' contemporaries were aware that Mary was the daughter of Heli.Brian.

Brian, I came to the conclusion that Mary was the daughter of Heli by reading the geneologies of Jesus in Luke. Joesph is the son of Heli by his marriage to Mary (son in law), and thus no matter how you read the Luke geneologies it makes sense only when one considers Mary the daughter of Heli.I find it interesting that you seem to be saying the Jesus is not God the Son. You seem to be disagreeing with galatians 4:4 that Jesus was made of a woman, you seem to be saying he was sired by God, when the bible says he was made of a woman. When I read the bible it says that the Father sent his only begotten Son into the world to save the world john 3:17, this infers sonship belonged before he even took on flesh. Do you believe Jesus is God the Son that he came from the bosom of the Father, that he was before the world was? Are you a Jehovah Witness?The Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth. (kjv John 1:14)No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. (kjv John 1:18)In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. (kjv John 1:1-3)

Of course, that would not matter from the viewpoint of the Messiah. The Messiah has to be of the SEED of David (I.E. unbroken decent from male line through Solomon).Trying to say that Helio's is Mary's father is irrelavent. It also is not supported by the Christian scriptures either. The controtions that
appologists go through to try to 'prove' that is illogical, and non-historical.

ramoss, If Solomon would of kept the Lords commandment (not to have other gods) (1 kings 11:10) then Jesus geneologies would of went thru Solomon.1Ki 11:39 And I will for this afflict the seed of David, but not for ever.The virgin birth of Mary's son and her marriage to Joesph solved the problem of being a legal heir thru Solomon and still being of the seed of David.

Given Jesus is also called the Son of God, and Christians too are adoptive joint heirs with Christ. I'm not a pastor but hope this explains the Sonship of and thru Jesus Christ.It seemed appropriate that because Jesus Christ is also God the Son. When someone becomes born of God we recieve the spirit of adoption whereby we cry, Abba Father. The Father is seeking such to worship him in Spirit and in Truth.The bible by saying the Father sent his Son into the world to save the world kjv John 3:17, this infers he was the God the Son even before he became flesh. Jesus is the son of man through his genes, but the God the Son in that his Spirit is in the bosom of his Father. kjv Rev 22:16 says that he is the root and offspring of David and the Bright and morning star. This explains Jesus Christ is both the son of man and the Son of God. kjv John 1:12 that as many as recieve him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name. Jesus Christ however is the only begotten son because he is God the Son and was in the bosom of the Father even before the World was. He was sent by the Father to us, so we too could become sons of God. When someone becomes born of God we recieve the spirit of adoption whereby we cry, Abba Father.The Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth. (kjv John 1:14)No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. (kjv John 1:18)In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. (kjv John 1:1-3)kjv Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.kjv Rom 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.kjv Rom 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:kjv Rom 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.kjv 2Jo 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.kjv Joh 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

TomI imagine you must have missed this post of mine so I will redo it here. If you can please show me the names of people listed starting with David and mentioned in the Old Testament to corroberate the bloodline.
You will find some that are only mentioned in the book of Luke.{ Mattatha.Menan,Melea, Jonan,Juda,etc}Would you care to explain why the OT neglects to mention them since the bloodline is an important part of the prophesy in the OT?Here is rhe passage in Luke.Show a corresponance between these names and those of the OT. Eliakim is especially ineresting since the OT lists Eliakim the son of Hilkiah,Eliakim the son of Josiah,Mat 1:13 lists Abiud as father of Eliakim. No mention of an Eliakim son of Melea in other than Luke.What do you suppose is the reason for that?

sidelined, I wasn't aware that the bible contained the entire geneology of all the sons born over how many hundred years since David reigned. They were sons of different people (popular name)different fathers.When Titus destroyed Jerusalem in 70 AD the records your referring too were likely destroyed, my take. Correct me if I'm wrong and all the geneological records are contained within the bible, if not then you have your answer.This message has been edited by Tom, 01-04-2005 00:42 AM

Tom How convenient.Then let us compare the account of Luke with that of Matthew.Luke.
Jesus Joseph, Heli, Matthat, Levi, Melchi, Janna,Joseph, Mattathias, Amos, Naum, Esli, Nagge, Maath, Mattathias, Semei,Joseph, Juda, Rhesa, Zorobabel, Salathiel, Neri, Melchi,Addi, Cosam,Elmodam, Er, Jose,Eliezer, Jorim,Matthat,Levi, Simeon, Juda, Joseph,Jonan,Eliakim, Melea, Menan, Mattatha, Nathan, David
40 men in line from David to JesusMatthew
David,Solomon,Roboam,Abia,Asa,Josaphat,Joram,Ozias,Joatham,Achaz,Ezekias,Manasses,Amon ,Josias,Jechonias,Salathiel,Zorobabel,Abiud ,
Eliakim ,Azor, Sadoc,Achim, Eliud,Matthan,Jacob, Joseph, Jesus. 25 men in line from David to JesusWho is right and how do you explain the one who is wrong?

Sidelined,Matthew is Joesph's geneology, and Luke is Mary's geneology with Joesph being mentioned again because he was the son in law of Heli. I posted all this in detail in several previous posts in this thread.Please re edit your previous posts so its easy to read the thread.Thank-you,
Tom

well, you didn't reply to the though. but ah well. i don't bat for either team, i call 'em like i see 'em. as brain said, this book was written 400 years after the gospel, and (like any other talmud) is explaining thought and tradition on text. they are not what i would call accurate sources. i think i breifly addressed this point earlier, actually, with a reference to extra-biblical texts pointing the mary being the daughter of heli. sons in jewish genealogies are always genetic sons. although, curiously, the term "son" in reference to "son of god" (king david, like psalm 2), or son in terms of "member of a group" ("son of israel") CAN be adoptive. but in genealogies, they are genetic. besides, there's an actual hebrew word for son-in-law.however, the thought i talked about was a different option to the 1600-year-old "son in law" thought, and the it's that luke is correcting some kind of mistake. your thoughts?

matthew skips a few as well, but i suspect he does it for numerical reasons.

yes, and i think we've overturned it.This message has been edited by Arachnophilia, 01-04-2005 03:27 AM

see genesis 32. see genesis 6.