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Author Topic:   the book of job, and an unjust god
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3484 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 31 of 181 (170376)
12-21-2004 9:57 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by Phat
12-20-2004 7:37 PM


quote:
Perhaps they thought that killing the enemy was Gods will.
That's what I was trying to say in Message 22, but apparently didn't succeed.
Whatever they wrote was written as God's will, whether it was an earthquake, flood, drought, war, etc., which is a priestly point of view.
How were wars depicted in official documents?
Is it possible to determine what is truly from God and what is man's perception?

A gentle answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by Phat, posted 12-20-2004 7:37 PM Phat has not replied

  
dpardo
Inactive Member


Message 32 of 181 (170426)
12-21-2004 12:46 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by berberry
12-20-2004 8:28 PM


Berberry writes:
Remember, the passage I cited states explicitly that God ordered the slaughter of the Amalekites.
What is your point concerning the slaughter of the Amalekites?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by berberry, posted 12-20-2004 8:28 PM berberry has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by berberry, posted 12-21-2004 2:06 PM dpardo has not replied

  
dpardo
Inactive Member


Message 33 of 181 (170447)
12-21-2004 1:55 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by berberry
12-18-2004 12:36 PM


Berberry writes:
If one wants to make the case that God is unjust, one has only to read 1 Samuel 15. God orders Israel to attack and utterly destroy an entire race of people, going out of his way to order that children and even suckling infants be killed. It's passages like this that make me wonder just why it is that we're supposed to be afraid of Satan. If this is really God then he's a lot like Hitler.
The account of what the "innocent" Amalekites did:
Deuteronomy 25:17-19:
17 Remember what Amalek did unto thee by the way, when ye were come forth out of Egypt;
18 How he met thee by the way, and smote the hindmost of thee, even all that were feeble behind thee, when thou wast faint and weary; and he feared not God.
19 Therefore it shall be, when the LORD thy God hath given thee rest from all thine enemies round about, in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance to possess it, that thou shalt blot out the remembrance of Amalek from under heaven; thou shalt not forget it.
The Amalekites attacked an unarmed Israel as they fled out of Egypt.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by berberry, posted 12-18-2004 12:36 PM berberry has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by Dan Carroll, posted 12-21-2004 1:59 PM dpardo has replied
 Message 38 by berberry, posted 12-21-2004 2:08 PM dpardo has replied

  
Dan Carroll
Inactive Member


Message 34 of 181 (170448)
12-21-2004 1:59 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by dpardo
12-21-2004 1:55 PM


The Amalekites attacked an unarmed Israel as they fled out of Egypt.
Even the suckling infants? That must have been adorable. Like some sort of twisted Anne Geddes photo.
...okay, like a more twisted Anne Geddes photo.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by dpardo, posted 12-21-2004 1:55 PM dpardo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by dpardo, posted 12-21-2004 2:05 PM Dan Carroll has replied
 Message 47 by berberry, posted 12-21-2004 2:45 PM Dan Carroll has replied

  
dpardo
Inactive Member


Message 35 of 181 (170449)
12-21-2004 2:00 PM


God gave Israel the Land of Canaan because the Canaanites were wicked:
Leviticus 18:21-30:
21 And thou shalt not let any of thy seed pass through the fire to Molech, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the LORD.
22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
23 Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion.
24 Defile not ye yourselves in any of these things: for in all these the nations are defiled which I cast out before you:
25 And the land is defiled: therefore I do visit the iniquity thereof upon it, and the land itself vomiteth out her inhabitants.

26 Ye shall therefore keep my statutes and my judgments, and shall not commit any of these abominations; neither any of your own nation, nor any stranger that sojourneth among you:
27 (For all these abominations have the men of the land done, which were before you, and the land is defiled; )
28 That the land spue not you out also, when ye defile it, as it spued out the nations that were before you.
29 For whosoever shall commit any of these abominations, even the souls that commit them shall be cut off from among their people.
30 Therefore shall ye keep mine ordinance, that ye commit not any one of these abominable customs, which were committed before you, and that ye defile not yourselves therein: I am the LORD your God.

  
dpardo
Inactive Member


Message 36 of 181 (170451)
12-21-2004 2:05 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by Dan Carroll
12-21-2004 1:59 PM


Dan Carroll writes:
Even the suckling infants?
How noble of you that you are concerned for the innocent suckling infants.
God did not spare the babies during the Flood of Genesis either.
He could have easily miracled a painless death for all of the innocent babies that haunt your thoughts.
As I said in another thread, God ultimately took ALL of the innocents to be with him.
Indeed he spared them from the wicked and corrupt adults.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by Dan Carroll, posted 12-21-2004 1:59 PM Dan Carroll has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by Dan Carroll, posted 12-21-2004 2:37 PM dpardo has replied

  
berberry
Inactive Member


Message 37 of 181 (170452)
12-21-2004 2:06 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by dpardo
12-21-2004 12:46 PM


You haven't been paying attention, have you?
dpardo asks:
quote:
What is your point concerning the slaughter of the Amalekites?
To compare God to Hitler.

Keep America Safe AND Free!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by dpardo, posted 12-21-2004 12:46 PM dpardo has not replied

  
berberry
Inactive Member


Message 38 of 181 (170453)
12-21-2004 2:08 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by dpardo
12-21-2004 1:55 PM


And your point is?
quote:
The Amalekites attacked an unarmed Israel as they fled out of Egypt.
Some 400 years prior, yes. I guess God has a long memory, huh?

Keep America Safe AND Free!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by dpardo, posted 12-21-2004 1:55 PM dpardo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by dpardo, posted 12-21-2004 2:22 PM berberry has replied
 Message 40 by dpardo, posted 12-21-2004 2:27 PM berberry has replied

  
dpardo
Inactive Member


Message 39 of 181 (170456)
12-21-2004 2:22 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by berberry
12-21-2004 2:08 PM


Berberry writes:
I guess God has a long memory, huh?
After the Amalakites had attacked Israel and Israel had fought back...
Exodus 17:14:
14 And the LORD said unto Moses, Write this for a memorial in a book, and rehearse it in the ears of Joshua: for I will utterly put out the remembrance of Amalek from under heaven.
Balaam prophesying in Numbers 24:20:
20 And when he looked on Amalek, he took up his parable, and said, Amalek was the first of the nations; but his latter end shall be that he perish for ever.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by berberry, posted 12-21-2004 2:08 PM berberry has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by berberry, posted 12-21-2004 2:27 PM dpardo has replied

  
dpardo
Inactive Member


Message 40 of 181 (170459)
12-21-2004 2:27 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by berberry
12-21-2004 2:08 PM


Berberry writes:
You haven't been paying attention, have you?
I guess God has a long memory, huh?
You would do well to remember this.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by berberry, posted 12-21-2004 2:08 PM berberry has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by berberry, posted 12-21-2004 2:36 PM dpardo has not replied

  
berberry
Inactive Member


Message 41 of 181 (170460)
12-21-2004 2:27 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by dpardo
12-21-2004 2:22 PM


When He gonna get round to it?
dpardo quotes Exodus:
...for I will utterly put out the remembrance of Amalek from under heaven.
Kinda funny isn't it; here we are, remembering Amalek.

Keep America Safe AND Free!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by dpardo, posted 12-21-2004 2:22 PM dpardo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by dpardo, posted 12-21-2004 2:37 PM berberry has replied

  
berberry
Inactive Member


Message 42 of 181 (170462)
12-21-2004 2:36 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by dpardo
12-21-2004 2:27 PM


dpardo admonishes me:
quote:
You would do well to remember this.
Why? God might come back 400 years from now and smite my descendants because of something I've done? Not to worry; I'm gay so there won't be any descendants.

Keep America Safe AND Free!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by dpardo, posted 12-21-2004 2:27 PM dpardo has not replied

  
dpardo
Inactive Member


Message 43 of 181 (170463)
12-21-2004 2:37 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by berberry
12-21-2004 2:27 PM


Re: When He gonna get round to it?
Berberry writes:
Kinda funny isn't it; here we are, remembering Amalek.
More quote mining?
If he asked Moses to write it in a book, then that's not what he meant by, "put out the remembrance of Amalek from under heaven."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by berberry, posted 12-21-2004 2:27 PM berberry has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by Dan Carroll, posted 12-21-2004 2:40 PM dpardo has not replied
 Message 46 by berberry, posted 12-21-2004 2:40 PM dpardo has replied

  
Dan Carroll
Inactive Member


Message 44 of 181 (170464)
12-21-2004 2:37 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by dpardo
12-21-2004 2:05 PM


He could have easily miracled a painless death for all of the innocent babies that haunt your thoughts.
Except that he didn't miracle away their lives. He specifically ordred men to kill them. Attacking armies of man don't traditionally offer painless deaths. (Nor do flood waters, while we're on the subject.)
As I said in another thread, God ultimately took ALL of the innocents to be with him.
That's cool of him, hanging out with them after ordering their deaths. I'd hate to be God in that scenario, though... I mean, talk about awkward.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by dpardo, posted 12-21-2004 2:05 PM dpardo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by dpardo, posted 12-21-2004 2:46 PM Dan Carroll has replied

  
Dan Carroll
Inactive Member


Message 45 of 181 (170465)
12-21-2004 2:40 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by dpardo
12-21-2004 2:37 PM


Re: When He gonna get round to it?
If he asked Moses to write it in a book, then that's not what he meant by, "put out the remembrance of Amalek from under heaven."
So, ah... what did he mean, then?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by dpardo, posted 12-21-2004 2:37 PM dpardo has not replied

  
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