The ulitmate sin: blasphemy against the Holy Ghost

Thank for for calling me discriminatory and oppressive.
Thank you for calling me a bigot twice (the first in capital letters).
Thank you for calling me the anti-Christ.And thank you for totally not addressing my argument and instead refering to name-calling.Let's try again. Here's my argument. Now you have two choices:
1. Address this argument.
2. Go back to name-calling again.

The argument is CRAP.That is all the refutation needed. It is totall contrary to loving GOD or loving others as you love yourself.Trying to bring in totally off topic extraneous nonsense has nothing to do with the issue.The whole argument is simply Bullshit.There are no Privileges involved.If you support discrimination your actions condemn you. It is totally up to you. You can behave as a Christian and oppose discrimination and oppression, or you can behave as a bigot and support such behavior.It's up to you.Anyone who supports discrimination and oppression is by definition a BIGOT. If you support DOMA or laws prohibiting same sex marriage, you are a bigot.Discrimination is wrong. It is anti-christ.

---

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

I'll address your nonse..., um, argument.commike37 drivels:

quote:

---

The healthy family is one where a married couple gives birth to children.

---

This is what we call a positive assertion. Do you know what that means? It means that, when called upon, you are required to provide evidence to back up the claim. I hereby call upon you to present this evidence.

quote:

---

Jesus would love homosexuals, but Jesus wouldn't love laws where our tax dollars end up going to pay for homosexual marriage.

---

Tax dollars pay for marriages? In what way? This is another assertion I'd like to see the evidence for.Incidentally, gays pay taxes, you know. Do you think that, since you are unwilling to extend to gays the same rights and protections under the law that you enjoy, gays should be absolved from payment of all taxes? Why should they pay into a system that doesn't protect them equally but instead imposes small-minded bigoted restrictions upon them?

quote:

---

Jesus will still love homosexuals (as he will any "sinner"), but Jesus will still be against the promotion of their practices.

---

Another stupid assertion you have no evidence to back up!

---

Keep America Safe AND Free!

Yes, yes, I know all of that. Just simply say, "Evidence, please," next time.
Anyway, the following evidence comes from the Heritage Foundation. You can follow the link for more detailed info, as they go into a lot more detail than this abstract.
The Heritage Foundation | The Heritage Foundation So yes, marriage does promote a healthy family.

---

Well, how does the government pay for the privileges granted to married couples? That's what taxes are for.

---

Not all of the taxes go to marriage, so they shouldn't be absolved from all payment. As for the taxes that do go to marriage, that gets into another issue: civil disobedience.

---

I'll rephrase: Hate the sin, love the sinner. So before I go on, is your question on whether or not we should hate sin or whether or not homosexuality is a sin?

---

A couple of other notes:
1. Not that this has to do with anything, but can I guess from your quote that you're both liberal and a card-carrying member of the ACLU?
2. Could you provide some evidence yourself? You spent your entire post on destroying my argument and none on building your own argument on this issue.I'll be going to sleep now, so I won't be replying until tomorrow.

commike37 squirms:

quote:

---

So yes, marriage does promote a healthy family.

---

No, no! That was not your assertion. You said: Not the same thing at all! Provide your evidence or retract the statement.

quote:

---

Well, how does the government pay for the privileges granted to married couples? That's what taxes are for.

---

You said: Two assertions in one, I see I wasn't paying sufficient attention before or I'd have noticed. Specifically, how do tax dollars pay for marriages? More importantly, where does the bible say that modern fundamentalist Christians have the right to speak for Jesus on the issue of tax policy? Where does the bible say that Jesus would be opposed in any way to homosexual marriage?

quote:

---

Not all of the taxes go to marriage, so they shouldn't be absolved from all payment.

---

I gather then that you would support special tax cuts for gays in order to insure that, at any given income level, gays pay at a lower rate since they are denied government protections that are provided only to straights?

quote:

---

...whether or not homosexuality is a sin?

---

That would be the question, yes, but I think we should lay that aside for the moment. We have enough on our plates as it is. You should review the several 'Homosexuality and the Bible' threads which have run here at EvC over the past few months to see if you have anything new to add.

quote:

---

...can I guess from your quote that you're both liberal and a card-carrying member of the ACLU?

---

More libertarian than liberal, but yes I am a proud member of the ACLU.

quote:

---

Could you provide some evidence yourself?

---

No I won't. If you see that I've made a positive assertion for which you wish to see evidence, quote it and ask.

---

Keep America Safe AND Free!

Don't get drawn too far afield. No one has ever shown that any tax dollars would go to support same sex marriage. In fact, it's hard to show that tax dollars go to support any marriage. There are deductions that can be taken for children, but childless marriages actually pay a marriage penalty.The issue though is on Blasphemy. It is my contention that oppression and discrimination are acts of blasphemy against the Holy Ghost. In particular, such behavior by Church Leaders is blasphemy.Let's try not to let this get pulled off into another Gay is Sin discussion.

---

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Now asking for evidence is one thing, but when your rebuttal substitutes accusations of positive assertions in place of counter-arguments which have real content, it generally tends to suggest a weakness in your own argument (especially when you have no evidence to support your position). I'm here to debate, not play evidence games. Well, it could help if you explain how it's not the same thing. I'm just saying that children are better off when they're born into married families. The assertion on paying taxes to support marriage was to say that if taxes pay for marriage, then we are supporting gay marriage if it exists. The whole point of this example was to say that Jesus would love the sinner, but not the sin (which is why he probably wouldn't pay taxes that supported gay marriage). And by playing evidence games and making accusations of postive assertions, you missed the point of this whole example. And this point stands regardless of whether or not taxes support marriage. That was just an example to help explain a larger concept.As for the homosexuality argument, I won't go into detail, but if you assume homosexuality is un-Biblical (which according to my viewpoint it is), then my argument starts to make sense. But we're also talking about gov't-sanctioned marriage, so that's where separation of church and state comes in. So I gather that you don't have to follow the same standards as me. If you think I made a false positive assertion, it would help if you offered evidence to disprove the assertion. Actually, I've been to gay Christian web sites, and I have become familiar with some common arguments they make.

commike37 writes me:

quote:

---

Well, it could help if you explain how it's not the same thing.

---

is not the same statement as The second statement was your original assertion. When I asked you for evidence, you gave me a thesis in support of the first statement. They're not the same thing. Once again, in the simplest language I can possibly use (read slowly so you don't miss anything): SUPPORT THE ASSERTION OR RETRACT THE STATEMENT!There is much more in your post that begs a response, but I see the need to keep you focused on one specific task: supporting this particular assertion: Do you understand the task you have at hand now?

---

Keep America Safe AND Free!

I have a question for you Jar:
I understand that you believe disallowing homosexual marraiges is discriminatory, and therefore un-christian, but how can you say the christian thing to do is to support and endorse an anti-christian act? The Bible takes a very clear stance on homosexuality, so why is helping this act occur the right thing to do? I guess it boils down to this: Which is worse, homosexual marriage or disrimination?Also, as I don't live in America, I have no knowledge of what benefits are given to married couples in America. Would you mind summarizing these 'tax benefits' that homosexuals are missing out on for me?Thanks

SoulSlay writes:

quote:

---

The Bible takes a very clear stance on homosexuality...

---

Does it indeed? That's funny, we've had scores of threads on this very topic, many which ran to over 300 posts, yet so far no one has been able to present this very clear biblical stance on homosexuality.

---

Keep America Safe AND Free!

Homosexuals are NOT discrimated against in terms of marriage! They are just as free as you or I to marry a member of the opposite sex anytime they choose.

---

Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" Isaiah 6:8
No webpage found at provided URL: www.1st-vets.us

Tal writes:

quote:

---

Homosexuals are NOT discrimated against in terms of marriage! They are just as free as you or I to marry a member of the opposite sex anytime they choose.

---

And thus live a lie. That's an interesting (though hardly surprising) "lifestyle" for a christian to advocate.

---

Keep America Safe AND Free!

That's not my point. I am refering to homosexuals being discriminated against with regards to marriage. They are not.

---

Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" Isaiah 6:8
No webpage found at provided URL: www.1st-vets.us

Tal writes:

quote:

---

That's not my point.

---

Irrelevant. It's the effect of your point.

quote:

---

I am refering to homosexuals being discriminated against with regards to marriage. They are not.

---

Yes they are. You say that homosexuals have the right to marry a person of the opposite sex knowing full well that the homosexual will have to live a lie in order to exercise his or her right to marry. Heterosexuals, however, are allowed to marry the person of their choice, no lying required. That violates the equal protection clause of the 14th amendment. You do know what the 14th amendment is, don't you?

---

Keep America Safe AND Free!

Lying has nothing to do with this example of discrimination.Marriage=union with a member of the opposite sex.I can choose to do it, and so can anybody else.NOBODY is telling anyone that they do not have this right.

---

Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" Isaiah 6:8
No webpage found at provided URL: www.1st-vets.us