Abortion

This very important issue has had an extremely large effect on society. Share your thoughts on this very important matter.(And let's see how many posts we can go before we start debating Creation/Evolution again! )

Let's not. I'll await Percy's decision, but my inclination is to delete the topic. Regardless it is off-topic.

Isn't the "Coffee House" intended as a place specificly for the debate of off topic subjects?Will input my opinions later.Moose------------------
BS degree, geology, '83
Professor, geology, Whatsamatta U
Old Earth evolution - Yes
Godly creation - Maybe

Now this may surprise you Cobra but this evolutionist agnostic/(soft) atheist believes that abortion is wrong...Not that I`d interfere with anyones right NOT to have a baby they DON`T want but I personally can`t stomach the thought....

Joz, I must say I agree with you.I think abortion is sickening. I hope one day in the future we will look back on abortion and be embarrased that we ever did such a thing (similar to the way we now think about slavery).It also disturbs me that women think it is "their right" to abort a child. This mindset is frightening; it's like the next disgusting step in the movement for womens rights. Not that I have a problem with equal women rights, but the right to kill babies is pushing it way too far.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cobra_snake:
The right to kill babies is pushing it way too far.

---

Ok I`m going to play devils advocate here for a minute.Abortion doesn`t stop if doctors are prevented from performing them legally. They happened when they were illegal, its really not that difficult to harm a fetus a long bit of wire is equipment enough, however the proceedure was very risky, and consequently many women would die of complications due to the less than sanitary conditions prevalent in that sort of illicit surgury.Secondly there are definitely cases where abortion should be an option, conception through rape(totaly agree here), cases where the child will be terribly handicaped (I actually disagree in this case) and if the mother is physically incapable of bringing the fetus to term.More importantly nobody should be forced to bear and raise children it should be a voluntary action that everyone is free to choose but not forced into.So to sum up criminalizing abortion won`t stop it happening.In some cases it is a legitimate if hard to accept option.Childbearing should be a optional joy rather than a mandatory burden.

​

[This message has been edited by joz, 02-03-2002]

To sum it all up, its going to all depend on what you believe, more of a topical discussion topic though. But if the bible is correct on this, then welp, its going to be a tough time for you later on!------------------

I am under the impression that the "topical discussion topic" area is still for topics have somewhat of an evolution/creation connection.On this topic, I'm not going to rush into making my grand statement. Once that statement is made, I intend to make none futher on the topic.Moose------------------
BS degree, geology, '83
Professor, geology, Whatsamatta U
Old Earth evolution - Yes
Godly creation - Maybe

Only, I ask for one thing: consistency. If it is right (for any reasons)to delete from the existence a person at his start, why don't we consider right also erasing a person in another point of his existence? What's the difference?
None, by logic. And all of us are aware of this fact.
The reality is that the modern society is more leaned on the glittering of the appearance (in every field) instead to search basic qualities like truth, love (agape) and consistency.

Cobra let me clarify my position.I personally would never either perform an abortion or encourage anyone to have an abortion... under normal circumstances.The exception here would be if the conception was the result of rape, if the child would develop to be severley mentaly or physicaly handicaped or if the mother was physically incapable of bringing the baby to term AND an attempt to bring said baby to term would endanger the mother.I disagree with most other reasons for an abortion however I would defend peoples right to make that decision themselves.I don`t think that abortion should ever again be illegal as this is largely ineffective in preventing its occurence and is acompanied by a dramatic growth in complications.Ultimately making abortion illegal would just vastly increase the number of "miscaried" babys, provide an illicit source of revenue for any doctor willing to conduct the operation and possibly lead to the deaths or disfigurement of many women at the hands of the less ethical and proficient of these practicioners.....

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cobra_snake:
Joz, I must say I agree with you.

​

I think abortion is sickening. I hope one day in the future we will look back on abortion and be embarrased that we ever did such a thing (similar to the way we now think about slavery).

​

It also disturbs me that women think it is "their right" to abort a child. This mindset is frightening; it's like the next disgusting step in the movement for womens rights. Not that I have a problem with equal women rights, but the right to kill babies is pushing it way too far.

---

heh cobra you already know my stance but id just like to say theres no way to prevent it. you also know that im not for minorities at all and that it should be a decision by the her and her significant other and her family. i dont really see a good solution to abortion other than a very powerful sperm/embryo killing drug that only worked in first trimester and then made it so that once you were past the fist trimester you would have to have the baby. which would mean that you couldnt back out on your decision to have the baby, which would work but that drug doesnt exist yet, so.------------------
"Overspecialize and you breed in weakness" -"Major" Motoko Kusanagi

quote:

---

Originally posted by KingPenguin:
/B]

---

Um bud all your doing there is replacing a surgical abortion with a chemical one. The ethical questions remain exactly the same.....

quote:

---

Originally posted by joz:
Um bud all your doing there is replacing a surgical abortion with a chemical one. The ethical questions remain exactly the same.....

---

yeah i didnt go anywhere but i was thinking of more of preventing late abortions.

quote:

---

Originally posted by KingPenguin:
yeah i didnt go anywhere but i was thinking of more of preventing late abortions.

---

Interesting side point to your chemical abortion proposal is that it would be illegal in the UK as the 1861 Offences Against the Person Act prohibits the supply of any "poison or other noxious thing" with intent to cause miscarriage.Not sure if it would be legal in the states or not...

I think that Joz and others have pretty well covered my pro-choice stance on abortion.I add a few comments:Abortion should not be a preferred method of birth control. And if abortion is to be done, the earlier in the pregnancy, the better.I question the wisdom of those (most prominently, the Catholic Church), who are effective in suppressing less offensive birth control methods, and as a result, in a sense, promote abortion.I often wonder how much the "pro-life" perspective cares about the qualities of the lives of the mother and new child, who were somehow persuaded away from abortion.Lastly, is the "pro-life" perspective, in part, promoting more later term abortions, by effectivly suppressing early term abortions?Moose

​

[This message has been edited by minnemooseus, 02-14-2002]