How did we create different accents?

I refer you to the wiki in my previous post. Sure, the transition was not immediate, but the "official" start date for middle english is 1100.

You might even say that there's a kind of natural selection at work with accents. The actual evolution of an accent is probably a lot more random than the evolution of a species, but the survival of an accent is probably less random. For example, RP (Received Pronunciation) was once the undisputed prestige accent in England, but as different societal pressures have come about over time, there are fewer benefits to be gained from adopting an RP accent, and more benefits to be gained from adopting the all-new, whacked-out ”Estuary English’ accent. If the trend continues, an accent can become marginalised, and eventually cease to be.Edited by Zawinul, : No reason given.

Hi, kuresu.1100 is only 34 years after the Battle of Hastings; I could be wrong (I am not an expert in the history of Anglo-Saxon and Middle English), but at this time the nobility were mostly Norman French, and the speakers of French and the speakers of English were still quite separate -- I don't think that the Romance borrowings into English were yet so extensive.You are correct that the transition was not abrupt -- although I have seen some examples of written English from this period that were only a few decades apart, and the difference was striking! The difference between Old and Middle English is as much grammatical as it is lexical. Well before the Norman Conquest English grammar was in the process of simplification. As one example, the word order in a typical English sentence was becoming more rigid and fixed; as result, the German declension endings became less important as syntactic markers and eventually were dropped altogether. 1100 is as good a point to mark dividing line between Old English and Middle English as any other point.That said, I was under the impression that the major influence of Romance on the English vocabulary occurred around the time of the Hundred Years War or shortly before, when the English nobility were tired of speaking embarassingly bad French and starting using more what had now become the more familiar English.I could be wrong about this. I was just under the impression that the initial Conquerors were too snooty to care much about the language of the conquerored, and so French and English continued to develop more or less independently of one another for a while.

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You'd get treated as a foreigner/immigrant whichever one you spoke here in Yorkshire!

Chaucer's Canterbury Tales is undoubtedly middle english. written from 1380 to 1390 (roughly).The Hundred Year's War --1337 to 1453.Chaucer's middle english is also quite well developed, readily understandable by us (for the most part). I'm not positive just what effect the Hundred Year's war would have on the language (as far as development), except for spreading it--considering the increase in beauracracy that comes with war (and Norman still being the language).The first pieces of Middle English literature I have found is the Ormulum, though it is more Old English than not (from 1200ish). From there, literarily (made that up) at least, Middle English begins coming into its own.not arguing about the prevalence of the language here, just the existence.

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To which Kuresu replied, quite rightly, nope. By early English I didn't mean Old English (that's the same as Anglo-Saxon) but Middle English (I'd forgotten the expression - sorry!).We're a bit off topic (although close) but while we're here, for anyone interested in getting a broad overview of the history of English in an easy to read way, I'd recommend the book "Mother Tongue" by American writer Bill Bryson. He's not an academic linguist, but he's an entertaining writer with a good eye for anecdotes. His "Made in America" also includes a lot about U.S. English as well, and is a good read.

Are you making fun of me?

Grimsby accent here . I've never understood why the Grimsby accent sounds closer to Mancunian and Scouse, when Grimsby's nearest major cities are York, Sheffield and Leeds.

Funny you should say that, because I'm in Hull (although I'm not a native) and Hull's nearer you than York. But Hull and Grimsby are very good examples of the seperate evolution of accents because of a geographical barrier (for non-brits, Zawinul and I are seperated by a two-mile wide estuary, and the difference in accents is enormous in relation to the distance).

Na, just speaking from experience

-_- ... right

I didn't think of Hull for some reason, but good call! Yeah, there are quite a few features of the Hull accent that seem quite foreign to people living south of the Humber, the one that sticks out most to me is the Hull substitute of 'oh' for 'uh'.Do you know of any good books on the evolution of English accents?

Seriously, we made up a lot of words in grammer, and middle school, an different ways to say them.Just look at ebonics. I am just guessing, but I would bet that somehow affects your accent, and as you make up new words, and way to say them, your accent changes.Another thought is, that if your raised in NY, then move out to Ohio, as you live there longer your accent starts to change, well at least it did for my friend, but it will never be a pure Ohio accent, it will always have a NY flare, and anyone who hangs around my friend, might just start talking like him, and start a whole new accent.

No, I don't know of any good books on accents. If anyone else does, I'd be interested too. I can't remember where I read the stuff I put in further up the thread on the mixing of the Saxons, Celts and Vikings, but it was probably from an article, not a book.Around Hull and York it was very much Viking territory prior to the mix, which presumably means Yorkshire vowel sounds have some relationship to ancient Danish.

Regional dialects and accents are an interesting thing. And when you drive around to different parts of the country you can tell where an accent originate. As you've said, there is an audible Irish influence in many of the states, but most particular to the Northeastern states, like Rhode Island, Massachussets, New Hampshire, etc. When a true native Bostonian says, "I'd like you to park the car somewhere in Boston," its sound like, "I'd like you to pahk the cah somwhere in Bahstin." There is not a heavy emphasis on the "r's" but a high emphasis on the "a's." Even their "o's" inflect like an "A."In the Northern states, like North Dakota, Minnesota, and Wisconsin, you hear a heavy Dutch and Nordic-based languages. It has synthesized into a noticeable and unique accent that also is found in some Canadian provinces. When they say, "about," its very noticeable and the inflection sounds almost quizzical, like they are asking you a question, even if they are just making a statement. Its hard to emulate it by typing it out, but I'm sure some of you know what I'm referring to. I hear alot British say that many American dialects sound similar, in that when the intonation gets more high pitched, they are expecting a question because the word does not crescendo.Because I'm not native to the Northwest, but now live here, there are some noticeable characteristics that I've picked up on. When a native Washingtonian or Oregonian says, "Washington," it sounds more like "Worshington." Or "car wash" sounds like, "Car worsh." Maybe DocPotato can back me up on that since he just moved to Portland.I grew up in Miami. Now that I've been away for so long, I can definitely hear the Cuban influence in South Floridian dialect, which in itself, is a very unique dialect in Spanish. If you put a Colombian, a Mexican, and a Cuban in the room, I can tell by their accent where they come from. They are very distinct. Considering the relative compactness of the British Isles, I find it remarkable that there are as many variations in accents than there is in the States. I don't know all the names for the accents, aside from Cockney, which is very distinct, however, I can tell a difference between someone from Leeds, from someone from London. Absolutely.

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