Jonah and the Whale.. a question.

Pretty much. I think it's as equally fallacious to suggest that we "define our own reality" as it is to suggest that we can know we're accurately perceiving reality. Both of those positions make the same mistake of overstating what we can know about reality.

Hi, Jonah's will was to not go to Nineveh, he even got on a boat bound for Tarshish, how can Jonah's actions be independant from his will?God conjured up this creature to take Jonah to Nineveh, if you read the mythic language you can see that Jonah describes the belly as a prison, making it impossible for him to go free. Yet another negation of free will.God was determined that Jonah was going to Nineveh whether he wanted to or not.Jonah 4:11 should be a clue as to how unhistorical this story is:But Nineveh has more than a hundred and twenty thousand people who cannot tell their right hand from their left120,000 people in Nineveh, you are having a laugh. But, throughout their history the Israelites have continually turned their back on God, either individually or collectively, but God always takes them back. These myths however, are to explain why God is so useless. Which particular deal would that be?Brian.

His will was that he not go to Nineveh, and his imprisonment in the fish and transportation to Nineveh was a result of God's actions. As an Israelite he should have been bound by God's command. As I said before, if he did not have free will, he wouldn't have made the decision to disobey God.The deal I was referring to was the covenant between God and the Israelites, as in Leviticus 22:31; "Therefore you shall keep my commandments and perform them." You are correct in that the Israelites were continually turning their backs on God. I sometimes wonder why He made them His chosen people.

Correct. God ignored Jonah's fre will choice of choosing not to go to Nineveh, and forced Jonah to go. So we agree that Jonah did not choose to go to Nineveh but God forced him to. Thus, Jonah's free will was taken from him. And as a being with alleged free will, his choice not to go to Nineveh should have been honoured. It was a choice whether an Israelite worshipped Yahweh or not. Yes, this was his free will decision, so if his free will decision was to disobey God, then obviously God has ignored Jonah's wishes by forcing him to go to Nineveh!Where is Jonah's free will when he is trapped inside a sea creature?I am sure he didn't choose this path, he did not want to go to Nineveh, yet he ended up there against his will.It is not difficult to grasp.What is the big deal with not having free will anyway?Brian.

Free will is just the ability to say yes or no to whomever we want to. God or man. Jonah had a choice inside the whale(not much of one, but he did have one). God did not ignore Jonah's free will choice, he acted on it.A persons free will choice does not need to be honoured. Cain made a free will choice, should that have been honoured. Adam and Eve made the first free will choice, should even that be honoured.Jonah did not end up in Ninevah against his free will. He eventually chose to goJonah 3:3 "Jonah obeyed the word of the LORD and went to Nineveh."The big deal about free will is that God created us so he could love us and we love him. Real love is a choice. Not something to be forced on someone. It is our "free will" to love or hate God.

quote:

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Real love is a choice.

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Is this true? When did you choose, of your own free will, to love or not love anyone? Can you really point to a stranger on the street and decide that you are going to love that person? Not act like you love that person, not simply respect that person, but actually love that person with all of your heart? Regardless of who she is and what she is really like?Conversely, take your spouse (let us, for convenience, say your wife until you specify a gender -- which you are under no obligation to do). Can you, right now, if you wanted, choose to not love her? I am not talking about a theoretical possibility that she may do something awful that will destroy your love, I am asking whether you can, right now, really decide that you will no longer love her.

That's a strange question. I have to admit, it did get me at first. But I am going to give it a go anyhow.Love as a feeling is something that is biological and cannot be chosen. Love as an action can be chosen. The continuation of love as a feeling is going to be based on how one has chosen to act on the feeling of love.For instance. I have feelings for my wife which can be considered as love as in an emotion. But I have chosen to act on those feelings and continue to love her in an action.But the love for God is a little different. With my wife, i noticed her and began to have feelings for her which I then intrepreted as love. With God I never really knew him before I was saved. But I have chosen to love him and have dedicated myself to him. Which I could choose to end. But my feeling of love for God has greatly increased since my salvation.Both ways are examples of true love. I was never forced into loving either one but I have dedicated myself to both. I guess that would be a definition of true love. Dedication. Complete dedication.

Howdy, neighbor! Welcome to EvC!

Thank you, Coragyps. I'm glad to be here.

Yet another from up North.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Not to worry, Jar - dbrennan is very likely from south of Interstate 20 if he's in Abilene. So he's probably not one of us nefarious Yankees from 22 miles (!!) north of that line. Hell, I'm even north of Wastella!

Actually I am from South Carolina. But the military moved me to Dyess AFB, TX. And I'm right now overseas in South West Asia.
Ah, the joys of military life.

Upstate or Low Country?This is of course asked in relation to the whale's journey.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

I'm from Greenville originally. You?We'll get back onto the whale thing at somepoint.

Know the area well from 76 to Walhalla.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion