Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
10 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,815 Year: 3,072/9,624 Month: 917/1,588 Week: 100/223 Day: 11/17 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Israel/Lebanon/Gaza conflict (continuation thread)
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 121 of 300 (336430)
07-29-2006 6:48 PM
Reply to: Message 119 by Buzsaw
07-29-2006 6:34 PM


On a Ceasefire
Buz asserts:
quote:
No. Israel turned down a mediated ceasefire offer for Hezbollah's need to regroup and resupply for additional expansionist hostilities against Israel. Israel wisely declined, knowing full well that it would only serve to Hezbollah's advantage.
Yes, we expected you to make such an assertion, but that is all it is so far.
The facts are:
There has been a call for a ceasefire for humanitarian reasons and to allow for diplomatic discussions and the possibility of a diplomatic resolution.
Israel turned down the offer.
You can try to spin those facts anyway you want, however they are still the facts.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 119 by Buzsaw, posted 07-29-2006 6:34 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 124 by Buzsaw, posted 07-29-2006 7:05 PM jar has replied
 Message 131 by iano, posted 07-29-2006 7:42 PM jar has replied

Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


Message 122 of 300 (336436)
07-29-2006 6:56 PM
Reply to: Message 118 by Faith
07-29-2006 2:38 PM


Re: Evidence Colonials set up the Royals as a target
Israel has turned down a mediated ceasefire.
There shouldn't even be mediation between terrorists and a nation. That legitimizes what is only criminal activity on Hezbollah's part. The Canadian general who spoke on the UN attack gave this opinion too. Link in Message 92 in case you missed it.
Holy Nationalist Supremacy, Batman!
There shouldn't even be mediation between terrorists and a nation. That legitimizes what is only criminal activity on the colonials' part. The British general who spoke on the colonials' attacks gave this opinion too. Link in {msg=1776} in case you missed it.
Lucky for Israel...they managed to bomb their way to statehood before the rules changed.

God gave us the earth. We have dominion over the plants, the animals, the trees. God said, ”Earth is yours. Take it. Rape it. It’s yours.’
--Ann Coulter, Fox-TV: Hannity & Colmes, 20 Jun 01
Save lives! Click here!
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC!
---------------------------------------

This message is a reply to:
 Message 118 by Faith, posted 07-29-2006 2:38 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 134 by Faith, posted 07-29-2006 8:09 PM Omnivorous has replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 123 of 300 (336437)
07-29-2006 6:56 PM
Reply to: Message 104 by Silent H
07-29-2006 5:34 AM


Re: Israel above the law
Holmes writes:
You didn't answer my questions. I think that is telling, don't you? There are international laws which govern (or are supposed to govern) the actions of NATIONS. Yes, terrorists do not as well as what are becoming referred to as "rogue nations". But legitimate nations are measured by their adherence to such laws.
My answer was that UN observers sat in southern quietly for years watching Hezbollah's massive arms/military buildup on Lebanon's southern border when in fact their own law/resolution 1559 required Hezbollah, being a political/ideological entity, to disarm. I also produced evidence of UN's serious pro-Islamic and anti Israel bias. When rogue nations violate by invasion and disregard to the rules, ligitimate nations must do what is needed to compensate or the rogue nations/terrorists win, expanding terrorism and tyranny into the legitimate nations who by those laws are disadvantaged. It's like you ban guns, the criminals end up armed leaving good citizens defenseless.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by Silent H, posted 07-29-2006 5:34 AM Silent H has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 163 by Silent H, posted 07-30-2006 4:31 AM Buzsaw has not replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 124 of 300 (336442)
07-29-2006 7:05 PM
Reply to: Message 121 by jar
07-29-2006 6:48 PM


Re: On a Ceasefire
The fact is that no matter what the reason, it seriously hinder's Israel's objective and serves Hezbollah's desperate need to resupply and regroup. At the height of intense warfare no army can simply stop and let the enemy catch up. That's like at the Super Bowl, the winning team must allow the loosers to rest and recoup before proceeding.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

This message is a reply to:
 Message 121 by jar, posted 07-29-2006 6:48 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 125 by jar, posted 07-29-2006 7:09 PM Buzsaw has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 125 of 300 (336443)
07-29-2006 7:09 PM
Reply to: Message 124 by Buzsaw
07-29-2006 7:05 PM


Re: On a Ceasefire
buz writes:
The fact is that no matter what the reason, it seriously hinder's Israel's objective and serves Hezbollah's desperate need to resupply and regroup. At the height of intense warfare no army can simply stop and let the enemy catch up. That's like at the Super Bowl, the winning team must allow the loosers to rest and recoup before proceeding.
Yet more assertions and a really silly analogy.
The facts remain Buz.
A humanitarian ceasefire was offered to allow time for the possibility of a diplomatic settlement.
Israel turned it down.
Facts are facts.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 124 by Buzsaw, posted 07-29-2006 7:05 PM Buzsaw has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 126 by randman, posted 07-29-2006 7:23 PM jar has replied
 Message 136 by Faith, posted 07-29-2006 8:22 PM jar has replied

randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4899 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 126 of 300 (336448)
07-29-2006 7:23 PM
Reply to: Message 125 by jar
07-29-2006 7:09 PM


Re: On a Ceasefire
Huh? a "humanitarian ceasefire" eh?
You are ignoring the facts buzz mentionedhere. The ceasefire was proposed after Hizbollah made their attack and were suffering defeat. So it's not just a humanitarian ceasefire, but a ceasefire aiding and helping Hizbollah.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 125 by jar, posted 07-29-2006 7:09 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 127 by jar, posted 07-29-2006 7:29 PM randman has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 127 of 300 (336451)
07-29-2006 7:29 PM
Reply to: Message 126 by randman
07-29-2006 7:23 PM


Re: On a Ceasefire
The facts remain:
A ceasefire has been offered to allow humanitarian relief as well as the possibility of a diplomatic resolution.
Israel turned down the ceasefire.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by randman, posted 07-29-2006 7:23 PM randman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 128 by randman, posted 07-29-2006 7:32 PM jar has replied

randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4899 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 128 of 300 (336453)
07-29-2006 7:32 PM
Reply to: Message 127 by jar
07-29-2006 7:29 PM


Re: On a Ceasefire
Why?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 127 by jar, posted 07-29-2006 7:29 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 130 by jar, posted 07-29-2006 7:38 PM randman has not replied

MangyTiger
Member (Idle past 6353 days)
Posts: 989
From: Leicester, UK
Joined: 07-30-2004


Message 129 of 300 (336454)
07-29-2006 7:33 PM
Reply to: Message 118 by Faith
07-29-2006 2:38 PM


Re: Evidence Hezbollah set up the UN post as a target
There shouldn't even be mediation between terrorists and a nation.
So you don't approve of the peace process in Northern Ireland then?
After all, one of the key factors in that has been Britain talking to the IRA - even if only indirectly.

Oops! Wrong Planet

This message is a reply to:
 Message 118 by Faith, posted 07-29-2006 2:38 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 137 by Faith, posted 07-29-2006 8:25 PM MangyTiger has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 130 of 300 (336458)
07-29-2006 7:38 PM
Reply to: Message 128 by randman
07-29-2006 7:32 PM


Re: On a Ceasefire
Why what?
The facts remain.
A ceasefire was offered to allow humanitarian aid and to provide the possibility of a diplomatic settlement.
Israel turned it down.
Thems the facts. All else is speculation.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 128 by randman, posted 07-29-2006 7:32 PM randman has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 138 by Faith, posted 07-29-2006 8:28 PM jar has replied

iano
Member (Idle past 1940 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 131 of 300 (336460)
07-29-2006 7:42 PM
Reply to: Message 121 by jar
07-29-2006 6:48 PM


Re: On a Ceasefire
There has been a call for a ceasefire for humanitarian reasons and to allow for diplomatic discussions and the possibility of a diplomatic resolution.
Israel turned down the offer.
You can try to spin those facts anyway you want, however they are still the facts.
A fact is not a fact because someone says something is what they say it is. You do know it is folk at EvC you are talking to, not some kindergaarten troupe

This message is a reply to:
 Message 121 by jar, posted 07-29-2006 6:48 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 132 by jar, posted 07-29-2006 7:56 PM iano has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 132 of 300 (336463)
07-29-2006 7:56 PM
Reply to: Message 131 by iano
07-29-2006 7:42 PM


Re: On a Ceasefire
Fact:
About 600 Lebanese killed, about 200 of them children.
The UN says some 600 people - about a third of them children - have been killed by Israeli action in Lebanon.
Fact:
Fifty-one Israelis have been killed, at least 18 of them civilians.
A total of 51 Israelis, including at least 18 civilians, have been killed during the conflict.
Fact:
Israel turned down a three day ceasefire.
Earlier, Israel rejected a UN call for a three-day truce in southern Lebanon.
Fact:
Israel says fight may intensify.
Meanwhile, Israeli military sources have indicated that the fighting could intensify.
Fact:
Israel continues to target UN observers.
A separate strike wounded two UN monitors in their observation post, the UN said, days after four were killed.
Fact:
Israel continues to target routes of egress from the area.
An Israeli air strike has closed the main border crossing from Lebanon into Syria, witnesses and officials say.
Source

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 131 by iano, posted 07-29-2006 7:42 PM iano has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 135 by iano, posted 07-29-2006 8:11 PM jar has not replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 133 of 300 (336465)
07-29-2006 8:00 PM
Reply to: Message 120 by randman
07-29-2006 6:44 PM


Re: I hope Israel wipes Hizbollah out.
The thing I don't understand is why Israel bombed so much of Lebanon's infrastructure. Now, if they bombed Damascus, that'd be perfectly legitimate, imo, or Tehran.
Listen to the Canadian general I linked to in Message 92, Randman. Hezbollah HAS lots of infrastructure. And Israel's bombing has been confined to the area where Hezbollah hangs out. Beirut proper has not been bombed.
Lately Israel's gov seems to be under so much pressure they've been driven mad. Driving Israelis from their farms in Gaza, giving them to Hamas, and then destroying Gaza makes no sense whatsoever.
I think it makes perfect sense considering the tactics of their enemy. First they are forced to give up the land in Gaza by international pressure. Everybody on Israel's side knew it was just a terrorist game they were giving into and so did they. Then of course the terrorist purpose becomes obvious and they have to retaliate. This is a typical pattern. Duplicity from the Palestinians, world opinion supporting it, Israel gives in, then has to react to the inevitable terrorist advantage that created.
Nor does it make sense to destroy lebanon, imo.
Lebanon proper is not being destroyed. Twelve square blocks of Beirut have been levelled, where Hezbollah camps out, plus various things Hezbollah has control over.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 120 by randman, posted 07-29-2006 6:44 PM randman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 164 by randman, posted 07-30-2006 5:17 AM Faith has replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 134 of 300 (336469)
07-29-2006 8:09 PM
Reply to: Message 122 by Omnivorous
07-29-2006 6:56 PM


Re: Evidence Colonials set up the Royals as a target
There shouldn't even be mediation between terrorists and a nation. That legitimizes what is only criminal activity on the colonials' part. The British general who spoke on the colonials' attacks gave this opinion too. Link in {msg=1776} in case you missed it.
Yeah, you all love to spin recognized terrorist organizations into romantic freedom fighters, and make a false equivalence with the American revolutionaries. To do that you have to ignore their ideological motives, which are far from freedom motives. The American colonists really WERE fighting for freedom, and in fact were very cautious about arriving at their decision to do so against what they still considered to be their motherland. NO comparison. NONE.
Do listen to the link in Message 92. The guy is very levelheaded and credible and he explains it well.
Edited by Faith, : To break up run-on sentence.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 122 by Omnivorous, posted 07-29-2006 6:56 PM Omnivorous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 151 by Omnivorous, posted 07-29-2006 9:32 PM Faith has replied

iano
Member (Idle past 1940 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 135 of 300 (336470)
07-29-2006 8:11 PM
Reply to: Message 132 by jar
07-29-2006 7:56 PM


Re: On a Ceasefire
If civilians getting killed is a reason in itself to cease fire for humanitarian reasons then why have war at all where civilians can get killed? Should the US call a ceasefire in Iraq. Should the Allies have called a ceasefire before Dresden and Hiroshima.
It seems to me that the world is a little more complex than that Jar.
And that is a fact too
Edited by iano, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 132 by jar, posted 07-29-2006 7:56 PM jar has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 147 by Omnivorous, posted 07-29-2006 9:14 PM iano has replied

Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024