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Author | Topic: evidence confirms biblical depiction of Edom | |||||||||||||||||||||||||
randman  Suspended Member (Idle past 4899 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
Today, the Edomites are again in the thick of combat ” of the scholarly kind. The conflict is heated and protracted, as is often the case with issues related to the reliability of the Bible as history. Chronology is at the crux of the debate. Exactly when did the nomadic tribes of Edom become an organized society with the might to threaten Israel? Were David and Solomon really kings of a state with growing power in the 10th century B.C.? Had writers of the Bible magnified the stature of the two societies at such an early time in history? An international team of archaeologists has recorded radiocarbon dates that they say show the tribes of Edom may have indeed come together in a cohesive society as early as the 12th century B.C., certainly by the 10th. The evidence was found in the ruins of a large copper-processing center and fortress at Khirbat en-Nahas, in the lowlands of what was Edom and is now part of Jordan. In a Ruined Copper Works, Evidence That Bolsters a Doubted Biblical Tale - The New York Times Edited by randman, : better or not?
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Adminnemooseus Administrator Posts: 3974 Joined: |
1) Needs a better topic title - Work "Edomites" into one.
2) Needs some input from you. What was the controversy before this new information, and how does this new information change things. Adminnemooseus Note: Current title is "evidence confirms "doubted biblical tale"". New Members should start HERE to get an understanding of what makes great posts.
Comments on moderation procedures (or wish to respond to admin messages)? - Go to:
General discussion of moderation procedures Thread Reopen Requests Considerations of topic promotions from the "Proposed New Topics" forum Other useful links:
Forum Guidelines, [thread=-19,-112], [thread=-17,-45], [thread=-19,-337], [thread=-14,-1073]
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Adminnemooseus Administrator Posts: 3974 Joined: |
Thread moved here from the Coffee House forum.
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randman  Suspended Member (Idle past 4899 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
It was meant as a Coffee House thread talking about something I read in the news, not as a dissertation. I changed the title. Why not promote it?
You think the NYTs is misreporting this as a major development in this field? If so, promote it and make that comment.
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Admin Director Posts: 12998 From: EvC Forum Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
Hi Randman!
We try to keep creation/evolution topics out of [forum=-14], and I think Adminnemooseus was just trying to figure out whether it belonged in the [forum=-35] forum or in one of the discussion forums. Did you see this as something you wanted to discuss (in which case [forum=-1] might be best), or just as something you wanted to bring to the attention of other people (in which case [forum=-35] might be best)?
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AdminBuzsaw Inactive Member |
Adminnemooseus writes: Needs some input from you. What was the controversy before this new information, and how does this new information change things. I agree that there should be input from Randman here as to what his opinion is on this and something to stimulate discussion on the aspects of it that Randman wishes to address. I also don't see it as a Coffee House item and would concur with Admin's choices of Forums. Perhaps Rand could choose one of those. I won't be logged in again until later tomorrow. I've offer my 2 cents worth as requested in PNT.
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randman  Suspended Member (Idle past 4899 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
OK, let's go with the Bible accuracy forum. The problem with asking for more input is that I think the article contains sufficient info on it's own. Obviously, I believe the Bible is correct. The folks arguing that Edom was not an organized nation believe otherwise. That's the issue.
This is not an area I am fully informed on so I really cannot give a whole lot more details than that as I haven't studied the details of the positions prior to this discovery. I have been aware of them, but in my experience the critical positions in Bible history have often been advanced with very little substance to back it and franklly have been rather boring as a result (admittedly the other side has been advanced as well without a lot of scientific evidence for it but just based on the Bible). But I do think it's worth discussion and that's what the forum is for, right? Edited by randman, : No reason given.
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Admin Director Posts: 12998 From: EvC Forum Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1344 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
quote: i'd like to point out that edom, according to the bible, was a kingdom LONG before israel. the earliest mention of edom as a country is in genesis 32, and the earliest confirmation that they have kings is in genesis 36:
quote: it's a little hard to tell specifically when this is, because it goes through a long un-dated genealogy first. but it's clear that these kings are before israel had a king.
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rgb Inactive Member |
Did the discovery of the City of Troy in Asia Minor confirm Greek Mythology?
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randman  Suspended Member (Idle past 4899 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
So when do you think the Bible states Israel had a king? When was Saul's reign?
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1344 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
if i recall correctly (and i may not), most hold that david was about 10th century bc.
12th century bc would be closer to the time of the exodus, and i suspect that the bible is placing edom even before that, though i can't actually do the math without the numbers. just pointing that edom pops up as a kingdom in genesis, and is probably before the exodus, so there might be a little further to go. again, not to familiar here, just trying to forward some information i thought might be pertinant.
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randman  Suspended Member (Idle past 4899 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
Well, David was the age of Jonathan, Saul's son, correct. So the time periods correspond well with the Bible. In terms of Genesis, I'd have to look at the references but one might say Israel existed as a tribe way back in Aberaham's time, but still was not a nation. So we would have to look at the language.
Edom comes from the descendants of Esau, right? So considering that, it is hard to see how Genesis dates Edom but so far back.
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1344 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
Well, David was the age of Jonathan, Saul's son, correct. So the time periods correspond well with the Bible that doesn't follow. we're not given a timeframe for the edomite kings in genesis, just that they are descended from esau (edom), and a number of generations. i think you fill this number of generations to be smaller than the number of generations between jacob (esau's brother) and exodus, and that would make edom older than the timeframe in the above article, according to the bible. i'll count them if you want. i just, well, i really hate genealogies.
In terms of Genesis, I'd have to look at the references but one might say Israel existed as a tribe way back in Aberaham's time, but still was not a nation. So we would have to look at the language. israel comes from abraham, so, no they did not. we don't get anyone called israel until jacob -- esau's brother. so the kingdoms of edom and israel are brother kingdoms, but according to genesis, edom had kings first.
Edom comes from the descendants of Esau, right? So considering that, it is hard to see how Genesis dates Edom but so far back. right, it's several generations after esau, but i don't think it's enough generations to bring it contemporary to the exodus. i'll go count, and come back.
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randman  Suspended Member (Idle past 4899 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
2 different things
First, you seemed to be disputing Edom was a kingdom when Israel was in the Bible. Are you backing off that? Second, you bring up Genesis without quotes. Provide the details, but this is a separate issue as to when Genesis implies Edom was a kingdom. Moses in one place is referred to as a king or ruling as a king as well, though generally not considered so and usually not considered so. The real issue is when did Edom become a kingdom, not whether someone was a king over them. In other words, when did the nation-state begin as oppossed to the tribe.
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