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Author Topic:   A listing of the contradictions and errors in the bible.
nos482
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Message 1 of 158 (16379)
09-01-2002 11:21 AM


Has this file been shown here before?
Subject: A List of Biblical Contradictions
By: Jim Meritt
Date: 1992-07-24
Contradictions -- The Bible is riddled with repetitions and
contradictions, things that the Bible bangers would be quick to point
out in anything that they want to criticize. For instance, Genesis 1
and 2 disagree about the order in which things are created, and how
satisfied God is about the results of his labors. The flood story is
really two interwoven stories that contradict each other on how many
of each kind of animal are to be brought into the Ark -- is it one
pair each or seven pairs each of the "clean" ones? The Gospel of John
disagrees with the other three Gospels on the activities of Jesus
Christ (how long had he stayed in Jerusalem -- a couple of days or a
whole year?) and all four Gospels contradict each other on the details
of Jesus Christ's last moments and resurrection. The Gospels of
Matthew and Luke contradict each other on the genealogy of Jesus
Christ'f father; though both agree that Joseph was not his real
father. Repetitions and contradictions are understandable for a
hodgepodge collection of documents, but not for some carefully
constructed treatise, reflecting a well-thought-out plan.
Of the various methods I've seen to "explain" these:
1. "That is to be taken metaphorically" In other words, what is
written is not what is meant. I find this entertaining, especially
for those who decide what ISN'T to be taken as other than the
absolute WORD OF GOD - which just happens to agree with the
particular thing they happen to want...
2. "There was more there than...." This is used when one verse says
"there was a" and another says "there was b", so they decide there
was "a" AND "b" -which is said nowhere. This makes them happy,
since it doesn't say there WASN'T "a+b". But it doesn't say there
was "a+b+litle green martians". This is often the same crowd that
insists theirs is the ONLY possible interpretation (i.e. only "a")
and the only way. I find it entertaining they they don't mind
adding to verses.
3. "It has to be understood in context" I find this amusing because it
comes from the same crowd that likes to push likewise extracted verses
that support their particular view. Often it is just one of the
verses in the contradictory set is suppose to be taken as THE TRUTH
when if you add more to it it suddenly becomes "out of context".
How many of you have goten JUST John 3:16 (taken out of all context)
thrown up at you?
4. "there was just a copying/writing error" This is sometimes called
a "transcription error", as in where one number was meant and an
incorrect one was copied down. Or that what was "quoted" wasn't
really what was said, but just what the author thought was said when
he thought it was said. And that's right - I'm not disagreeing with
events, I'm disagreeing with what is WRITTEN. Which is apparently
agreed that it is incorrect. This is an amusing misdirection to the
problem that the bible itself is wrong.
5. "That is a miracle". Naturally. That is why it is stated as fact.
6. "God works in mysterious ways" A useful dodge when the speaker doesn't
understand the conflict between what the bible SAYS and what they WISH
it said.
=============================================================================
REFERENCES:
The King James version of the Bible. quotes provided.
Self-contradictions of the Bible.
William Henry Burr
ISBN 0-87975 416 -8
Burr, William Henry, 1819-1908.
Self-contradictions of the Bible / William Henry Burr ; with an
introduction by R. Joseph Hoffmann. [Buffalo, NY : Prometheus Books],
c1987.
Series title: Classics of Biblical criticism.
UCB Moffitt BS533 .B798 1987
UCD Main Lib BS533 .B798 1987
Cooper, Robert, secularist.
The "Holy Scriptures" analyzed, or, Extracts from the Bible : shewing its
contradictions, absurdities and immoralities / by Robert Cooper. 2nd ed.,
to which is added, a vindication of the work. Manchester, [Greater
Manchester] : J. Cooper, 1840.
Series title: Goldsmiths'-Kress library of economic literature ; no.
31887.
UCLA AGSMgmt H 31 G57 Microfilm
DeHaan, M. R.
508 answers to Bible questions : with answers to seeming Bible
contradictions / M.R. DeHaan. Grand Rapids, Mich. : Zondervan, [1968?],
c1952.
UCSB Library BS538 .D43 1968
Thaddaeus, Joannes, fl. 1630.
The reconciler of the Bible inlarged : wherein above three thousand
seeming contradictions throughout the Old and New Testament are fully and
plainly reconciled ... / by J.T. and T.M. .. London : Printed for Simon
Miller ..., 1662.
Series title: Early English books, 1641-1700 ; 1052:9.
UCSD Central MICRO F 524 Current Periodical Microform
Poole, Matthew, 1624-1679.
Annotations upon the Holy Bible. Vol. II : wherein the sacred text is
inserted, and various readings annex'd, together with the parallel
scriptures : the more difficult terms in each verse are explained,... The
third edition, with the addition of a new concordance and tables, by Mr.
Sam. Clark; the whole corrected and amended by the said Mr. Sam. Clark and
Mr. Edward Veale .. London : Printed for Thomas Parkhurst [and 6 others],
MDCXCVI [1696].
Series title: Early English books, 1641-1700 ; 1041:1.
UCSD Central MICRO F 524 Current Periodical Microform
"the x-rated bible" by ben edward akerley, published by
american atheist press, austin texas, 1985.
=============================================================================
A good source of _literal_ Biblical self-contradictions is (surprise)
"Self-Contradictions of the Bible", written by William Henry Burr in
1859 as a response to fundamentalism. It is currently published by
Prometheus Books, 700 East Amherst St., Buffalo, NY 14215. P.B. also
publishes a large number of books on religious inquiry and biblical
critiques, the majority of which have a humanistic/atheistic slant.
As far as "Self-Contradictions ..." goes, it contains about 140 textual
inconsistencies, classified under "Theological Doctrines", "Moral Precepts",
"Historical Facts", and "Speculative Doctrines."
=============================================================================
"The Bible Handbook" is a compilation of several previous works by several
authors, including W P Ball, G W Foote, and John Bowden. Also, the writing
by Mr Foote is dated 1900, so we see that this is not a new endeavor.
_The Bible Handbook_ by W.P. Ball, et al., available for nine dollars from the
the American Atheist Press, P.O. Box 2117, Austin TX 78768-2117. It's a
collection of biblical contradictions, absurdities, atrocities, immoralities,
indecencies, obscenities, unfulfilled prophecies and broken promises. This
372-page volume will give the atheist tons of scriptural ammunition for
shooting down the flimsy arguments of the reality impaired.
=============================================================================
Additional contributions were given by:
markn@mot.com (DX560 Mark Nowak)
JHAYNES@MPS.OHIO-STATE.EDU
loren%sunlight.llnl.gov@lll-lcc.llnl.gov
lmoikkan@Bonnie.ICS.UCI.EDU
gerry@cs.cmu.edu
gerry@frc2.frc.ri.cmu.edu
smith_w@apollo.hp.com
icsu7039@caesar.cs.montana.edu
XWUU@VM.CC.PURDUE.EDU
bjorn%consens.UUCP@nac.no
EETLO29%TECHNION@TAUNIVM.TAU.AC.IL
refling@envy.eng.uci.edu
mgo@inel.gov
rkp@drutx.att.com
daveh@sequent.com
markn%mot.com@tin.berkeley.edu
aa485@cleveland.freenet.edu (John Strekal)
=============================================================================
>God good to all, or just a few?
PSA 145:9 The LORD is good to all: and his tender mercies are
over all his works.
JER 13:14 And I will dash them one against another, even the fa-
thers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor
spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.
=============================================================================
>War or Peace?
EXO 15:3 The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.
ROM 15:33 Now the God of peace be with you all. Amen.
=============================================================================
> Who is the father of Joseph?
MAT 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was
born Jesus, who is called Christ.
LUK 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of
age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son
of Heli,
=============================================================================
> Who was at the Empty Tomb? Is it :
MAT 28:1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward
the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary
to see the sepulchre.
MAR 16:1 And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary
the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that
they might come and anoint him.
JOH 20:1 The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early,
when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone
taken away from the sepulchre.
=============================================================================
>Is Jesus equal to or lesser than?
JOH 10:30 I and my Father are one.
JOH 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come
again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said,
I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
=============================================================================
>which first--beasts or man?
GEN 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and
cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the
earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
GEN 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our
likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea,
and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all
the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the
earth.
GEN 2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man
should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
GEN 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast
of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto
Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called
every living creature, that was the name thereof.
=============================================================================
>number of beasts in the ark
GEN 7:2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens,
the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two,
the male and his female.
GEN 7:8 Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and
of fowls, and of every thing that creepeth upon the earth,
GEN 7:9 There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the
male and the female, as God had commanded Noah.
=============================================================================
>how many stalls and horsemen?
KI1 4:26 And Solomon had forty thousand stalls of horses for his
chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen.
CH2 9:25 And Solomon had four thousand stalls for horses and
chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen; whom he bestowed in the
chariot cities, and with the king at Jerusalem.
=============================================================================
>folly to be wise or not?
PRO 4:7 Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and
with all thy getting get understanding.
ECC 1:18 For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that in-
creaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.
1 Cor.1:19: "For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and wil
bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent."
=============================================================================
>human vs. ghostly impregnation
ACT 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had
sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, ac-
cording to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his
throne;
MAT 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as
his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came togeth-
er, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.
=============================================================================
>sins of the father
ISA 14:21 Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of
their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor
fill the face of the world with cities.
DEU 24:16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the chil-
dren, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers:
every man shall be put to death for his own sin.
=============================================================================
>The bat is not a bird.
LEV 11:13 And these are they which ye shall have in abomination
among the fowls; they shall not be eaten, they are an abomina-
tion: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray,
LEV 11:14 And the vulture, and the kite after his kind;
LEV 11:15 Every raven after his kind;
LEV 11:16 And the owl, and the night hawk, and the cuckow, and
the hawk after his kind,
LEV 11:17 And the little owl, and the cormorant, and the great
owl,
LEV 11:18 And the swan, and the pelican, and the gier eagle,
LEV 11:19 And the stork, the heron after her kind, and the lapw-
ing, and the bat.
DEU 14:11 Of all clean birds ye shall eat.
DEU 14:12 But these are they of which ye shall not eat: the ea-
gle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray,
DEU 14:13 And the glede, and the kite, and the vulture after his
kind,
DEU 14:14 And every raven after his kind,
DEU 14:15 And the owl, and the night hawk, and the cuckow, and
the hawk after his kind,
DEU 14:16 The little owl, and the great owl, and the swan,
DEU 14:17 And the pelican, and the gier eagle, and the cor-
morant,
DEU 14:18 And the stork, and the heron after her kind, and the
lapwing, and the bat.
=============================================================================
>Rabbits do not chew their cud.
LEV 11:6 And the hare, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth
not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.
'Gerah', the term which appears in the MT means (chewed) cud, and
also perhaps grain, or berry (also a 20th of a sheckel, but I think
that we can agree that that is irrelevant here). It does *not* mean
dung, and there is a perfectly adequate Hebrew word for that, which
could have been used. Furthermore, the phrase translated 'chew the cud'
in the KJV is more exactly 'bring up the cud'. Rabbits do not bring
up anything; they let it go all the way through, then eat it again.
The description given in Leviticus is inaccurate, and that's that.
Rabbits do eat their own dung; they do not bring anything up and
chew on it.
=============================================================================
> Insects do NOT have four feet.
LEV 11:21 Yet these may ye eat of every flying creeping thing
that goeth upon all four, which have legs above their feet, to
leap withal upon the earth;
LEV 11:22 Even these of them ye may eat; the locust after his
kind, and the bald locust after his kind, and the beetle after
his kind, and the grasshopper after his kind.
LEV 11:23 But all other flying creeping things, which have four
feet, shall be an abomination unto you.
=============================================================================
>Snails do not melt.
PSA 58:8 As a snail which melteth, let every one of them pass
away: like the untimely birth of a woman, that they may not see
the sun.
=============================================================================
>fowl from waters or ground?
GEN 1:20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the
moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the
earth in the open firmament of heaven.
GEN 1:21 And God created great whales, and every living creature
that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after
their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw
that it was good.
GEN 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast
of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto
Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called
every living creature, that was the name thereof.
=============================================================================
> odd genetic engineering
GEN 30:39 And the flocks conceived before the rods, and brought
forth cattle ringstraked, speckled, and spotted.
=============================================================================
>shape of the earth
ISA 40:22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth,
and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth
out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to
dwell in:
MAT 4:8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high
mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the
glory of them;
Astromical bodies are spherical, and you cannot see the entire exterior
surface from anyplace. The kingdoms of Egypt, China, Greece, Crete,
sections of Asia Minor, India, Maya (in Mexico), Carthage (North
Africa), Rome (Italy), Korea, and other settlements from these
kingdoms of the world were widely distributed.
=============================================================================
>Snakes, while built low, do not eat dirt.
GEN 3:14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou
hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every
beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt
thou eat all the days of thy life:
=============================================================================
>earth supported?
JOB 26:7 He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and
hangeth the earth upon nothing.
JOB 38:4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the
earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
>Heaven, too...
}JOB 26:11 The pillars of heaven tremble and are astonished at
}his reproof.
=============================================================================
>hydrological cycle
ECC 1:7 All the rivers run into the sea; yet the sea is not
full; unto the place from whence the rivers come, thither they
return again.
JOB 38:22 Hast thou entered into the treasures of the snow? or
hast thou seen the treasures of the hail,
Storehouses are not part of the cycle
=============================================================================
} order of creastion
Here is the order in the first (Genesis 1), the Priestly tradition:
Day 1: Sky, Earth, light
Day 2: Water, both in ocean basins and above the sky(!)
Day 3: Plants
Day 4: Sun, Moon, stars (as calendrical and navigational aids)
Day 5: Sea monsters (whales), fish, birds, land animals,
creepy-crawlies (reptiles, insects, etc.)
Day 6: Humans (apparently both sexes at the same time)
Day 7: Nothing (the Gods took the first day off anyone ever did)
Note that there are "days", "evenings", and "mornings" before
the Sun was created. Here, the Deity is referred to as "Elohim", which
is a plural, thus the literal translation, "the Gods". In this tale,
the Gods seem satisfied with what they have done, saying after each
step that "it was good".
The second one (Genesis 2), the Yahwist tradition, goes:
Earth and heavens (misty)
Adam, the first man (on a desolate Earth)
Plants
Animals
Eve, the first woman (from Adam's rib)
=============================================================================
How orderly were things created?
#1: Step-by-step. The only discrepancy is that there is no Sun or Moon
or stars on the first three "days".
#2: God fixes things up as he goes. The first man is lonely, and is
not satisfied with animals. God finally creates a woman for him.
(funny thing that an omniscient god would forget things)
=============================================================================
How satisfied with creation was he?
#1: God says "it was good" after each of his labors, and rests on the
seventh day, evidently very satisfied.
#2: God has to fix up his creation as he goes, and he would certainly
not be very satisfied with the disobedience of that primordial couple.
(funny thing that an omniscient god would forget things)
=============================================================================
> Moses's personality
Num.12:3: "Now the man Moses was very meek, above all the men which were upon
the fact of the earth."
Num.31:14, 17, 18: "And Moses was wroth...And Moses said unto them, "Have ye
saved all the women alive? ... Now therefore kill every male among the little
ones, and kill every woman, ... But all the women children ... keep alive for
yourselves."
=============================================================================
>righteous live?
Ps.92:12: "The righteous shall flourish like the palm tree."
Isa.57:1: "The righteous perisheth, and no man layeth it to heart."
=============================================================================
Acts 1:18: "Now this man (Judas) purchased a field with the reward of
iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his
bowels gushed out."
Matt. 27:5-7: "And he (Judas) cast down the pieces of silver in the temple,
and departed, and went and hanged himself. And the chief priests...bought
with them the potter's field."
=============================================================================
>Jesus' first sermon plain or mount?
Matt.5:1,2: "And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when
he was set, his disciples came unto him: And he opened his mouth, and taught
them, saying...."
Luke6:17,20: "And he came down with them, and stood in the plain, and the
company of his disciples, and a great multitude of people...came to hear him..
And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples and said..."
=============================================================================
>Jesus' last words
Matt.27:46,50: "And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice,
saying, "Eli, eli, lama sabachthani?" that is to say, "My God, my God, why hast
thou forsaken me?" ...Jesus, when he cried again with a loud voice, yielded u
the ghost."
Luke23:46: "And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, "Father, unto
thy hands I commend my spirit:" and having said thus, he gave up the ghost."
John19:30: "When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, "It is
finished:" and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost."
!@#
=============================================================================
>years of famine
II SAMUEL 24:13: So God came to David, and told him, and said unto him, shall
SEVEN YEARS OF FAMINE come unto thee in thy land? or will thou flee three
months before thine enemies, while they pursue. thee?
I CHRONICLES 21:11: SO God came to David, and said unto him, Thus saith the
LORD, Choose thee. Either THREE YEARS OF FAMINE or three months to be destryed
before thy foes, while that the sword of thine enemies overtaketh thee;
=============================================================================
>moved David to anger?
II SAMUEL 24: And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel,
and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Isreal and Judah.
I CHRONICLES 21: And SATAN stood up against Isreal, and provoked David to
number Israel.
=============================================================================
>The GENEALOGY OF JESUS?
In two places in the New Testament the genealogy of Jesus son of Mary (PBUH)
is mentioned. Matthew 1:6-16 and Luke 3:23-31. Each gives the ancestors of
Joseph the CLAIMED husband of Mary and Step father of Jesus(PBUH). The first
one starts from Abraham(verse 2) all the way down to Jesus. The second
one from Jesus all the way back to Adam. The only common name to these two
lists between David and Jesus is JOSEPH, How can this be true? and also
How can Jesus have a genealogy when all Muslims and most Christians believe
that Jesus had/has no father.
=============================================================================
>God be seen?
Exod. 24:9,10; Amos 9:1; Gen. 26:2; and John 14:9
God CAN be seen:
"And I will take away my hand, and thou shalt see my backparts."
(Ex. 33:23)
"And the Lord spake to Moses face to face, as a man speaketh to his
friend." (Ex. 33:11)
"For I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved."
(Gen. 32:30)
God CANNOT be seen:
"No man hath seen God at any time." (John 1:18)
"And he said, Thou canst not see my face; for there shall no man
see me and live." (Ex. 33:20)
"Whom no man hath seen nor can see." (1 Tim. 6:16)
=============================================================================
>CRUEL, UNMERCIFUL, DESTRUCTIVE, and FEROCIOUS or KIND, MERCIFUL, and GOOD:
"I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy." (Jer. 13:14)
"Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and
spare them not, but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling."
"The Lord is very pitiful and of tender mercy." (James 5:11)
"For his mercy endureth forever." (1 Chron. 16:34)
"The Lord is good to all, and his tender mercies are over all his
works." (Ps. 145:9)
"God is love." (1 John 4:16)
=============================================================================
>tempts?
"And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham."
(Gen 22:1)
"Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God; for God
cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man." (James 1:13)
=============================================================================
>Judas died how?
"And he cast down the pieces of silver into the temple and departed,
and went out and hanged himself." (Matt. 27:5)
"And falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all of his
bowels gushed out." (Acts 1:18)
=============================================================================
> ascend to heaven
"And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven." (2 Kings 2:11)
"No man hath ascended up to heaven but he that came down from heaven,
... the Son of Man." (John 3:13)
=============================================================================
What was Jesus' prediction regarding Peter's denial?
Before the cock crow - Matthew 26:34
Before the cock crow twice - Mark 14:30
=============================================================================
>How many times did the cock crow?
MAR 14:72 And the second time the cock crew. And Peter called to
mind the word that Jesus said unto him, Before the cock crow
twice, thou shalt deny me thrice. And when he thought thereon, he
wept.
MAT 26:74 Then began he to curse and to swear, saying, I know
not the man. And immediately the cock crew.
MAT 26:75 And Peter remembered the word of Jesus, which said
unto him, Before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice. And he
went out, and wept bitterly.
LUK 22:60 And Peter said, Man, I know not what thou sayest. And
immediately, while he yet spake, the cock crew.
LUK 22:61 And the Lord turned, and looked upon Peter. And Peter
remembered the word of the Lord, how he had said unto him, Before
the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice.
JOH 13:38 Jesus answered him, Wilt thou lay down thy life for my
sake? Verily, verily, I say unto thee, The cock shall not crow,
still thou hast denied me thrice.
JOH 18:27 Peter then denied again: and immediately the cock
crew.
=============================================================================
>who killed Saul
SA1 31:4 Then said Saul unto his armourbearer, Draw thy sword,
and thrust me through therewith; lest these uncircumcised come
and thrust me through, and abuse me. But his armourbearer would
not; for he was sore afraid. Therefore Saul took a sword, and
fell upon it.
SA1 31:5 And when his armourbearer saw that Saul was dead, he
fell likewise upon his sword, and died with him.
SA1 31:6 So Saul died, and his three sons, and his armourbearer,
and all his men, that same day together.
SA2 1:15 And David called one of the young men, and said, Go
near, and fall upon him. And he smote him that he died.
=============================================================================
>How many beatitudes in the Sermon on the Mount
MAT 5:3 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the king-
dom of heaven.
MAT 5:4 Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comfort-
ed.
MAT 5:5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
MAT 5:6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after
righteousness: for they shall be filled.
MAT 5:7 Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
MAT 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
MAT 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called
the children of God.
MAT 5:10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteous-
ness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
MAT 5:11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and per-
secute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely,
for my sake.
LUK 6:20 And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples, and said,
Blessed be ye poor: for yours is the kingdom of God.
LUK 6:21 Blessed are ye that hunger now: for ye shall be filled.
Blessed are ye that weep now: for ye shall laugh.
LUK 6:22 Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they
shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you,
and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake.
LUK 6:23 Rejoice ye in that day, and leap for joy: for, behold,
your reward is great in heaven: for in the like manner did their
fathers unto the prophets.
=============================================================================
>Does every man sin?
KI1 8:46 If they sin against thee, (for there is no man that
sinneth not,) and thou be angry with them, and deliver them to
the enemy, so that they carry them away captives unto the land of
the enemy, far or near;
CH2 6:36 If they sin against thee, (for there is no man which
sinneth not,) and thou be angry with them, and deliver them over
before their enemies, and they carry them away captives unto a
land far off or near;
PRO 20:9 Who can say, I have made my heart clean, I am pure from
my sin?
ECC 7:20 For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth
good, and sinneth not.
JO1 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and
the truth is not in us.
JO1 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to for-
give us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
JO1 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar,
and his word is not in us.
JO1 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his
seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of
God.
=============================================================================
>who bought potter's field
ACT 1:18 Now this man purchased a field with the reward of ini-
quity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and
all his bowels gushed out.
ACT 1:19 And it was known unto all the dwellers at Jerusalem;
insomuch as that field is called in their proper tongue, Acelda-
ma, that is to say, The field of blood.
MAT 27:6 And the chief priests took the silver pieces, and said,
It is not lawful for to put them into the treasury, because it is
the price of blood.
MAT 27:7 And they took counsel, and bought with them the
potter's field, to bury strangers in.
MAT 27:8 Wherefore that field was called, The field of blood,
unto this day.
=============================================================================
>Who prophesied the potter's field
Matthew 27:9-10 (mentions Jeremy but no such verse in Jeremiah)
is in Zechariah 11:12-13
=============================================================================
>who bears guilt?
GAL 6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of
Christ.
GAL 6:5 For every man shall bear his own burden.
=============================================================================
>Do you answer a fool?
PRO 26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou
also be like unto him.
PRO 26:5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise
in his own conceit.
=============================================================================
> How many children did Michal, the daughter of Saul, have?
SA2 6:23 Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child unto
the day of her death.
SA2 21:8 But the king took the two sons of Rizpah the daughter
of Aiah, whom she bare unto Saul, Armoni and Mephibosheth; and
the five sons of Michal the daughter of Saul, whom she brought up
for Adriel the son of Barzillai the Meholathite:
=============================================================================
>How old whas Jehoiachin when he began to reign?
KI2 24:8 Jehoiachin was eighteen years old when he began to
reign, and he reigned in Jerusalem three months. And his mother's
name was Nehushta, the daughter of Elnathan of Jerusalem.
CH2 36:9 Jehoiachin was eight years old when he began to reign,
and he reigned three months and ten days in Jerusalem: and he did
that which was evil in the sight of the LORD.
=============================================================================
>marriage?
Proverbs 18:22
1 Corinthians 7 (whole book. See 1,2,27,39,40)
=============================================================================
>Did those with Saul/Paul at his conversion hear a voice?
ACT 9:7 And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless,
hearing a voice, but seeing no man.
ACT 22:9 And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and
were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to
me.
=============================================================================
>Where was Jesus three days after his baptism?
MAR 1:12 And immediately the spirit driveth him into the wilder-
ness.
JOH 1:35 Again the next day after John stood, and two of his
disciples;
(various trapsing)
=============================================================================
>How many apostles were in office between the resurection and ascention
1 Corinthians 15:5 (12)
Matthew 27:3-5 (minus one from 12)
Acts 1:9-26 (Mathias not elected until after resurrection)
MAT 28:16 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into
a mountain where Jesus had appointed them.
=============================================================================
Judging
1 Cor 3:15 " The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself
is not subject to any man's judgment:" (NIV)
1 Cor 4:5 " Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait till the
Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose
the motives of men's hearts. At that time each will receive his praise from
God."
=============================================================================
Good deeds
Matt 5:16 "In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see
your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven." (NIV)
Matt 6:3-4 "But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what
your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secert. Then your
Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you." (NIV)
=============================================================================
>for or against?
MAT 12:30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that
gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.
(default is against)
MAR 9:40 For he that is not against us is on our part.
(default is for)
LUK 9:50 And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is
not against us is for us.
(default is for)
=============================================================================
Whom did they see at the tomb?
MAT 28:2 And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the
angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back
the stone from the door, and sat upon it.
MAT 28:3 His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment
white as snow:
MAT 28:4 And for fear of him the keepers did shake, and became
as dead men.
MAT 28:5 And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear
not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified.
MAR 16:5 And entering into the sepulchre, they saw a young man
sitting on the right side, clothed in a long white garment; and
they were affrighted.
LUK 24:4 And it came to pass, as they were much perplexed
thereabout, behold, two men stood by them in shining garments:
JOH 20:12 And seeth two angels in white sitting, the one at the
head, and the other at the feet, where the body of Jesus had
lain.
=============================================================================
>God change?
malachi 3:6
james 1:17
1 samuel 15:29
jonah 3:10
genesis 6:6
=============================================================================
>destruction of cities (what said was jeremiah was zechariah)
MAT 27:9 Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremy the
prophet, saying, And they took the thirty pieces of silver, the
price of him that was valued, whom they of the children of Israel
did value;
zechariah 11:11-13
(nothing in Jeremiah remotely like)
=============================================================================
>who's sepulchres
acts 7:16
genesis 23:17,18
=============================================================================
>strong drink?
proverbs 31:6,7
john 2:11-11
=============================================================================
>When second coming?
MAT 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass,
till all these things be fulfilled.
MAR 13:30 Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not
pass, till all these things be done.
LUK 21:32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass
away, till all be fulfilled.
1 thessalonians 4:15-18
=============================================================================
Solomon's overseers
550 in I Kings 9:23
250 in II Chron 8:10
=============================================================================
The mother of Abijah:
Maachah the daughter of Absalom 2 Chron 9:20
Michaiah the daughter of Uriel 2 Chron 13:2
=============================================================================
When did Baasha die?
26th year of the reign of Asa I Kings 16:6-8
36th year of the reign of Asa I 2 Chron 16:1
=============================================================================
How old was Ahaziah when he began to reign?
22 in 2 Kings 8:26
42 in 2 Chron 22:2
=============================================================================
WHo was Josiah's successor?
Jehoahaz - 2 Chron 36:1
Shallum - Jeremiah 22:11
=============================================================================
The differences in the census figures of Ezra and Nehemiah.
=============================================================================
What was the color of the robe placed on Jesus during his trial?
scarlet - Matthew 27:28
purple John 19:2
=============================================================================
What did they give him to drink?
vinegar - Matthew 27:34
wine with myrrh - Mark 15:23
=============================================================================
How long was Jesus in the tomb?
Depends where you look; Matthew 12:40 gives Jesus prophesying
that he will spend "three days and three nights in the heart
of the earth", and Mark 10:34 has "after three days (meta treis
emeras) he will rise again". As far as I can see from a quick look,
the prophecies have "after three days", but the post-resurrection
narratives have "on the third day".
=============================================================================

Replies to this message:
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Andya Primanda
Inactive Member


Message 2 of 158 (16391)
09-02-2002 3:13 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by nos482
09-01-2002 11:21 AM


Great arsenal. Maybe I'll use some for the next missionary trying to convert me...

This message is a reply to:
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Philip
Member (Idle past 4722 days)
Posts: 656
From: Albertville, AL, USA
Joined: 03-10-2002


Message 3 of 158 (16393)
09-02-2002 3:27 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by nos482
09-01-2002 11:21 AM


I'll focus on the last one, since all the other of your supposed contradictions are too easily refuted by the Bible itself, except for one transcriptional error (about the age of a King being 8 vs. 18 when he began to rule)
Christ's resurrection occurred (Biblically) during a "high" (Passover) Sabbath. The High Sabbath also included the feast of unlevened bread. (forgive the mispellings).
Both feast days occurred before the regular Sabbath and are recorded in the Gospels.
(The reason Christ coincidentally was taken on the Eve of the Passover was because He is the Lamb that causes God's wrath to passover you and I, and thus save our souls)
At any rate: many dogmatically reconcile the 3rd day as having been the 3rd day after Christ's death in this manner:
Christ died on a Wednesday evening (the High Sabbath) and arose Sunday while it was yet dark, according to the Scriptures. That gives you 3 days and 3 nights, and on the 3rd day, according to our Scriptures.
Incidentally, the 3rd Jewish feast that occurs (mentioned elsewhere besides the Gospels) is the feast of the firstfruits: Together with the Passover and Unleavened bread feasts they too account for 3 days and 3 nights.
Older Christians who allow(ed) God to economize on these 3 days did so with intense faith, despite their ignorance of the prolonged High Sabbath events that placed Christ's death on a Wednesday evening (vs. Good Friday).
Again, all your other supposed contradictions are easily refuteable.
(While respecting honest inquiries of dissonance within the Bible, I feel sorry for this poor soul(s) that sought the most anti-Christian way possible to attempt to break the scriptures to his/her own quick self-destruction)

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Philip
Member (Idle past 4722 days)
Posts: 656
From: Albertville, AL, USA
Joined: 03-10-2002


Message 4 of 158 (16395)
09-02-2002 3:50 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by Andya Primanda
09-02-2002 3:13 AM


Call it great arsenal, Andya, but his disrespect for your Koran is even more obvious in his attack. Do you see any of his dissonance with your Koran? Of course not! He sought out the Bible as the foremost enemy to his way of life, not the Koran.
Why not ask him what he thinks of the accuracy and inerrancy of the Koran.
Don't be dismayed by his lack of response and apathy in this regard; and his quick disappearance from the thread. His dissonance is with himself and those who believe/deduct a Redeemer-ID, only. Moses, Allah, Buddha, Hindoo, and Voodoo mean nothing to him; he's only against the Redeemer-ID'r (a.k.a., anti-Christ).

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nos482
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 158 (16401)
09-02-2002 7:55 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by Philip
09-02-2002 3:50 AM


Originally posted by Philip:
Call it great arsenal, Andya, but his disrespect for your Koran is even more obvious in his attack. Do you see any of his dissonance with your Koran? Of course not! He sought out the Bible as the foremost enemy to his way of life, not the Koran.
Hey, Apologist, this is "The Bible: Accuracy and Inerrancy" so I posted a listing of the many contradictions found in the bible to show just inaccurate a statement that truly is. Get a clue. BTW, your apologenics are meaningless. The reasoning to an apologists is that it isn't a lie, or a distortion, when you do it in god's name. You are speculating, or using the speculations of others.
Why not ask him what he thinks of the accuracy and inerrancy of the Koran.
I feel the same about all dominance based religions. It's nothing personal.
Don't be dismayed by his lack of response and apathy in this regard; and his quick disappearance from the thread.
Hey, smeghead, I just posted this yesterday and was checking back for responses all day. I do have to sleep you know.
His dissonance is with himself and those who believe/deduct a Redeemer-ID, only. Moses, Allah, Buddha, Hindoo, and Voodoo mean nothing to him; he's only against the Redeemer-ID'r (a.k.a., anti-Christ).
Get some professional mental help.

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blitz77
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 158 (16406)
09-02-2002 8:50 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by nos482
09-01-2002 11:21 AM


For your list of "contradictions", there are many sites that refute them.
quote:
Subject: A List of Biblical Contradictions
By: Jim Meritt
For example, by searching on google for 'A List of Biblical Contradictions" Jim+Meritt refuted'
I found several sites refuting it, including
here
Others are refuted at these sites,
The Alleged Errors in Scripture
Answers to "Bible Contradictions
Apparent contradictions in accounts concerning Jesus Christ
Solutions to Contradictions in the Bible
Come Let Us Reason
Countering Contradictions
How Far Can We Trust the Bible?
On Bible Errors and Contradictions: A Defense of Sacred Scripture as Inerrant
101 Cleared-up "Contradictions" in the Bible
Refuted Contradictions
Resurrection Puzzle
"Hallway of Questions" From the Christian ThinkTank
"Hallway of Questions" From the Christian ThinkTank
Questions & Answers from the Scholars
As you will notice from these sites, many of the supposed "contradictions" are from the translations-using the original Hebrew, they disappear.
[This message has been edited by blitz77, 09-02-2002]

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nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 7 of 158 (16422)
09-02-2002 11:55 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by nos482
09-02-2002 7:55 AM


A word of advice:
Personal attacks to the opposition do no favors to the cause, cowboy, and weakens your argument, no matter if you are 100% correct.
Debate; don't insult.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by nos482, posted 09-02-2002 7:55 AM nos482 has replied

Replies to this message:
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nos482
Inactive Member


Message 8 of 158 (16425)
09-02-2002 12:20 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by blitz77
09-02-2002 8:50 AM


If it were suppose to be the inspired word of god than it wouldn't matter which language it was in. An all-knowing god would be able to take that into account.
Besides, we're not speaking of the so-called "original" texts and manuscripts, but the bible in its current form which is taught to all as being literal, accurate, and inerrant which it is not.
Aren't these texts originally written in Aramaic and not Hebrew?
[This message has been edited by nos482, 09-02-2002]

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nos482
Inactive Member


Message 9 of 158 (16426)
09-02-2002 12:21 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by nator
09-02-2002 11:55 AM


I'm only giving what I'm getting.

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Replies to this message:
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Randy
Member (Idle past 6247 days)
Posts: 420
From: Cincinnati OH USA
Joined: 07-19-2002


Message 10 of 158 (16443)
09-02-2002 4:12 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by blitz77
09-02-2002 8:50 AM


I don’t really like laundry list posts like from either side but I find this interesting from the site that Blitz77 liked to
http://www.geocities.com/...7273/biblicalcontradictions.html
quote:
Gen 6:13-8:22. - The account of the flood and Noah's Ark-
Charge: This is myth, but the Bible presents it as history. It is myth because not all animals over the whole world were destroyed, for certainly they did not all fit in that most limited ark!
Reply: It cannot be denied that Noah did not have room for every single species of every kind of animal on board. Nor is there any need for such an assertion. For the Hebrew word "'erets," which is here translated "the world" or "the earth" for us, is also commonly and properly translated "land" or "country." So instead of "whole earth," which is erroneous, we ought to read "whole land," which will do no matter how much of the earth was flooded, and still gets the Hebrew right. So this charge fails, just as the one before last, for letting itself get caught in the stranglehold of poor translation.
This quote is from Blitz’s post
quote:
As you will notice from these sites, many of the supposed "contradictions" are from the translations-using the original Hebrew, they disappear.
So YECs you should see that when the Hebrew is properly translated as Blitz requires Noah’s flood was NOT global.
Randy

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nos482
Inactive Member


Message 11 of 158 (16444)
09-02-2002 4:49 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Randy
09-02-2002 4:12 PM


So YECs you should see that when the Hebrew is properly translated as Blitz requires Noah’s flood was NOT global.
Randy
So, we are taught a lie? What else is new.
The flood myth is not original to the Hebrews either. They got it from their time as slaves of the Babylonians where it had been a story about immortality and the Hebrews "adopted" it and changed it to a story about morality.

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compmage
Member (Idle past 5153 days)
Posts: 601
From: South Africa
Joined: 08-04-2005


Message 12 of 158 (16765)
09-06-2002 10:59 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by nos482
09-01-2002 11:21 AM


In the reformed tradition, you have to compare scripture with scripture. What some people see as "contradictions" are simply different perspectives of the same event. When you put the two together, you get a more complete picture. Ofcause there are minor details that differ. If you go to court, all the witnesses do not agree to every last detail of an event. In the case of the resurection of Jesus, ofcause there is minor differences in the detail: It was, after all, written some time after the event.
But the proof of the Christian faith is in its very existance. In His ultimate wisdom, God made the birth of Christianity very painful for the apostiles. This way, they can not be suspected of alterier motives. Think about it: They spoke of events they saw with their own eyes. Therefore, they were not speaking about posibilities. What they said, was either true or false, and they would know if it's true or false. Let's us suppose they were lieing. What is the motives? Wealth? certainly not. Paul was a roman citizen and a member of the majority religious party. He was a fanatic against the church, and all of a sudden he became an Apostile. He lost all his earthly possesions and freedoms.Fame? Ofcause not. If they where making it up, and did not really believed in the God they were preaching, there were no Guarantee that the their story of a man rising from the dead would catch on. They would've quit after they suffered the amount of persucution they suffered. For all they knew, chances were that Christianity would die out quickly, and they would be forgotten. I can't think of any other reason for them to persist in such hardships other than that they truely believed in Jesus Christ. What is more is their witnesses were backed up by thousands of other witnesses. The events they talked about, did not happen somewhere in a cave (Like the revelations to Mohammed) it happened out in the open. People knew what they were talking about.
After his resurrection, Jesus apeared to hundreds of people. Surely you can't get hundreds of people to tell exactly the same lie? That is what some people wants us to believe about the moonlandings!
Were they crazy? Go to a nut house and look what you'll find. You won't find 5 crazy people telling the same crazy stories. Crazy people don't work in concert.
There is no other religion that grew under persucution, while the followers did not fight back with violence. This is because their faith is planted by God Himself.
Now that we established the motives of the witnesses, it is save to assume their witnesses are true accounts. But what about Jesus himself? He performed multiple wonders where everyone could see it. There were no supernatural power stronger than Him. In fact: demons in possesed people admitted He was God. And so did He. He practiced what he preached. There is a misconception that only the 12 apostiles followed him. Wrong. most of the time, hundreds, even thousands followed him, hearing every word, and seeing every wonder. You see Christianity is founded on witnesses. Undisputable witnesses, even though their detail differ a bit.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by nos482, posted 09-01-2002 11:21 AM nos482 has replied

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gene90
Member (Idle past 3822 days)
Posts: 1610
Joined: 12-25-2000


Message 13 of 158 (16814)
09-06-2002 7:43 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by compmage
09-06-2002 10:59 AM


[QUOTE][B]I can't think of any other reason for them to persist in such hardships other than that they truely believed in Jesus Christ. [/QUOTE]
[/B]
Mohammed had to leave his city in order to escape persecution.
The Latter-day Saints had to cross the Great Plains because they were being killed off by the local Christian population. That was after Joseph Smith died for what he believed.
[QUOTE][B] The events they talked about, did not happen somewhere in a cave (Like the revelations to Mohammed)[/QUOTE]
[/B]
Or the work of John the Revelator, which *was* done in a cave?
[QUOTE][B]After his resurrection, Jesus apeared to hundreds of people. Surely you can't get hundreds of people to tell exactly the same lie?[/QUOTE]
[/B]
Historical sources (including, as I understand it, the work of Flavius Josephus) do indicate that the event was witnessed by thousands. Unfortunately only a few wrote about it so that point isn't terribly convincing now that those witnesses have died.
[QUOTE][B]That is what some people wants us to believe about the moonlandings![/QUOTE]
[/B]
Which were televised live across the globe, returned hundreds of pounds of lunar samples, and generated thousands of scientific papers.
[QUOTE][B]Go to a nut house and look what you'll find. You won't find 5 crazy people telling the same crazy stories.[/QUOTE]
[/B]
Actually they might as long as they are around each other enough.
I'm curious though, have you tried this or read any studies?
[QUOTE][B]Crazy people don't work in concert.[/QUOTE]
[/B]
So all I need to prove a church is true is multiple witnesses? There were 11 witnesses to the Book of Mormon. What church do you attend?

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nos482
Inactive Member


Message 14 of 158 (16816)
09-06-2002 8:38 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by compmage
09-06-2002 10:59 AM


Originally posted by Hanno:
In the reformed tradition, you have to compare scripture with scripture. What some people see as "contradictions" are simply different perspectives of the same event. When you put the two together, you get a more complete picture. Ofcause there are minor details that differ. If you go to court, all the witnesses do not agree to every last detail of an event. In the case of the resurection of Jesus, ofcause there is minor differences in the detail: It was, after all, written some time after the event.
More like decades and through third, fourth and more hand and no actual firsthand accounts.
But the proof of the Christian faith is in its very existance.
Christianity is not the only religious belief system in the world, and there are older religions as well. I.E. Buddhism, and Hinduism. In fact the oldest living religion is Hinduism.
In His ultimate wisdom, God made the birth of Christianity very painful for the apostiles. This way, they can not be suspected of alterier motives. Think about it: They spoke of events they saw with their own eyes. Therefore, they were not speaking about posibilities. What they said, was either true or false, and they would know if it's true or false. Let's us suppose they were lieing. What is the motives? Wealth? certainly not. Paul was a roman citizen and a member of the majority religious party. He was a fanatic against the church, and all of a sudden he became an Apostile. He lost all his earthly possesions and freedoms.Fame? Ofcause not. If they where making it up, and did not really believed in the God they were preaching, there were no Guarantee that the their story of a man rising from the dead would catch on. They would've quit after they suffered the amount of persucution they suffered. For all they knew, chances were that Christianity would die out quickly, and they would be forgotten. I can't think of any other reason for them to persist in such hardships other than that they truely believed in Jesus Christ.
People die for a lie all of the time. They want something to make them feel more than they truly are.
What is more is their witnesses were backed up by thousands of other witnesses. The events they talked about, did not happen somewhere in a cave (Like the revelations to Mohammed) it happened out in the open. People knew what they were talking about.
After his resurrection, Jesus apeared to hundreds of people. Surely you can't get hundreds of people to tell exactly the same lie?
There are no firsthand accounts in the NT about the life of Christ and Paul never actually met him in the flesh. There are not even any passages in the bible directly from Christ either.
That is what some people wants us to believe about the moonlandings!
Please, there are far too many firsthand accounts that this event actually occured. I even watched it on live TV at the time.
Were they crazy? Go to a nut house and look what you'll find. You won't find 5 crazy people telling the same crazy stories. Crazy people don't work in concert.
Well, Bin Laudin managed to get nearly 20 of them to crash into some buildings with airplanes. Why do people think that just because someone is deluded that they can't function?
There is no other religion that grew under persucution, while the followers did not fight back with violence.
Judaism. Once Christianity took over the Roman Empire, through a deception, they did more than their fair share of tossing people to the lions. BUt what can I expect, most Christian, like you, don't know their actual history. It was because of this deception that they had managed to us the Roman EMpire to impose Christianity on much of the world of the time. If it wasn't for this Christianity would have died out long again.
This is because their faith is planted by God Himself.
Hardly.
Now that we established the motives of the witnesses, it is save to assume their witnesses are true accounts. But what about Jesus himself? He performed multiple wonders where everyone could see it. There were no supernatural power stronger than Him. In fact: demons in possesed people admitted He was God. And so did He. He practiced what he preached. There is a misconception that only the 12 apostiles followed him. Wrong. most of the time, hundreds, even thousands followed him, hearing every word, and seeing every wonder. You see Christianity is founded on witnesses. Undisputable witnesses, even though their detail differ a bit.
Again, there are no firsthand accounts in the NT of the life of Christ. Plus, many of his so-called miracles were commonly claimed by many rulers of the time to make themselves look more impressive.
In fact his life parallelled many aspects of the Greek god Zeus and his son Apollo.
[This message has been edited by nos482, 09-06-2002]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by compmage, posted 09-06-2002 10:59 AM compmage has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by gene90, posted 09-06-2002 9:30 PM nos482 has replied

  
gene90
Member (Idle past 3822 days)
Posts: 1610
Joined: 12-25-2000


Message 15 of 158 (16818)
09-06-2002 9:30 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by nos482
09-06-2002 8:38 PM


[QUOTE][B]Again, there are no firsthand accounts in the NT of the life of Christ.[/QUOTE]
[/B]
I don't think I even *have* to demonstrate that this is false. It goes right up there with Mormon arranged marriages, Smith's prophecy that he recorded 20 years after he was dead, and Shakespeare writing the KJV.
Perhaps you meant that there were no accounts in the NT that were written while Christ was alive. But there are firsthand accounts, commonly known as the Gospels.
This conflicts with the Forum Rules on two seperate issues:
[QUOTE][B]Assertions should be supported with either explanations and/or evidence for why the assertion is true. Bare assertions are strongly discouraged.[/QUOTE]
[/B]
[QUOTE][B]Avoid any form of misrepresentation.[/QUOTE]
[/B]
And what do we have here? Another inaccurate statement:
[QUOTE]Hanno: [B]There is no other religion that grew under persucution, while the followers did not fight back with violence.
Nos: Judaism. [/QUOTE]
[/B]
Actually the Jews did fight back--on many occasions. (1) Throughout the OT. (2) Against the Romans at the Masada.
I don't believe there was no violence on behalf of the Christians either. I also don't necessarily believe that no religion out there would refuse to fight back. But Nos' example is incorrect and most people would recognize that instantly.
[This message has been edited by gene90, 09-06-2002]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by nos482, posted 09-06-2002 8:38 PM nos482 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by nos482, posted 09-07-2002 12:05 AM gene90 has replied

  
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