Atheist Appreciation of Biblical Wisdom and Inspiration

Except for the fact that the Athenian Greeks weren't Atheists.

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There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008

Yah, you're right. Most were pagan and likely some agnostics, having a statue to the unknown god, according to the Apostle Paul in the NT book of Acts.Perhaps, though, what might inspire pagans and agnostics Biblically might be the same cited scriptures applying to athiests, including the Proverbs and the prophecies, etc.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

I'd second Buzz' suggestion that Proverbs is a possible place for you to go. I suspect however, that much of its wisdom will, on reflection, strike you as something you already know and that you'll recognise your 'trouble' as lying in the lack of wherewithal to apply that wisdom consistantly.Take the following proverb for example (often cited, incidently, as an example of the bible contradicting itself).

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Proverbs 26:

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4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest you become like him.

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5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own eyes.

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Combined, the proverb tells you that you that whilst it's wise to contend with a persons foolishness, it is unwise to utilise foolishness yourself in doing so. So when an EvC opponant pours scorn through the device of a strawman, by all means answer that foolishness - but just not through the device of a strawman (nor through any other foolish means). - otherwise you become a fool yourself. I don't know if you follow jaywill at all but if you do you'll see a polished practioner of this proverb.The wisdom is plain enough but the application of same the tricky point. Which brings me to the irrelevancy of the bible for the unbeliever.You point to the impact the bible has had on forming Western culture* but I think it would be more correct to point to the application of biblical principles which has had the impact. The welfare systems, hospitals, orphanages, educational systems, human rights activities, charities, etc. that have arisen as a result of the application of biblical principles have (those who were behind them would tell you) occurred because of the empowerment supplied to the individual by God. Without being plugged into that source, the wisdom would be stripped of it's motive power, and would struggle to rise above wishful thinking, New Year resolutions and sentimentality.Jesus warned that lusting after a woman was tantamount to adultery. His pinpointing such thoughts to be the thin end of a thick, destructive wedge is a wisdom most can, with a little experience in lusting, acknowledge. Without his motive power however, a knowledge of that wisdom leaves you lusting and being battered by the knowledge that it is a foolish, damaging activity.The bibles wisdom is wisdom without power for the unbeliever, wisdom with the power of God for the believer.*I'm taking the positive aspects of the bibles application for illustrations sake only.Edited by iano, : No reason given.Edited by iano, : No reason given.

Compassion, generosity, kindness and curiosity are human qualities that existed long before they were noted in the bible. They would continue to exist without the bible. The bible is a result of them not a cause.

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Compassion, generosity, kindness and curiosity are human qualities that existed long before they were noted in the bible. They would continue to exist without the bible. The bible is a result of them not a cause.

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Not the point of the thread. No one is saying the Bible is the cause of these behaviors in people. This thread is asking about what wisdom is contained in the pages of the Bible.Yes, we can find wisdom in many writings of various cultures, but that isn't the issue. This thread is specifically asking about what wisdom is contained within the Bible. Please keep to the topic.Here is another one I like. Some teach we should never get angry, but the verse doesn't really say that.

The point being made was that examples of these human characteristics writ societal in scale (such a welfare systems, abolition of slavery, child labour, universal education, public hospitals and health systems, charities, etc) was something birthed in the West as a result of people being influenced by the Bible.Societies where the Bible was absent lagged behind in these regards (although there is no suggestion that the human qualities listed were absent)

Despite practically none of that being in the Bible.Why not say instead that it was the result of the Enlightenment? Of the birth of secular thought and secular government?

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Despite practically none of that being in the Bible.

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Why not say instead that it was the result of the Enlightenment? Of the birth of secular thought and secular government?

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So show that these things were because of enlightenment or secular thought only as opposed to being inspired by anything written in Bible. Odds are many things influenced those who fashioned our culture. That doesn't mean the Bible writings didn't provide some wisdom and inspiration. Uncle Tom's Cabin written by Harriet Beecher Stowe is an anti-slavery novel. In this thread we are talking about the wisdom and inspiration that can be gleaned from the Bible. It isn't about whether it is the only source of wisdom and inspiration.I'm not sure why some participants feel the need to keep pointing out that the Bible isn't the only source of wisdom and inspiration. So far no one has implied that it is. We are discussing the Bible, not any other writing. So opinions are concerning what Bible wisdom has influenced or inspired.Do we really have to keep posting a disclaimer that our opinions are only concerning the Bible and not any other book that may have contributed to wisdom and inspiration of humanity?Interesting that no one has disagreed with the actual verses yet.

I'm dealing with an OP who would agree that it is. If not in letter (anymore that the decrying of internet sex is there in letter) then in spirit. And it is the spirit which guided so many to do so much. Because I'm dealing with someone who appears to accept the Western values have been very significantly impacted by the the Bible. That is not to exclude the contribution of anything else.Which is all a bit beside the point. The point was that the doing of so many was through what they believed to be empowerment by God. Which limits the value of the wisdom unempowered so.

Um ... the OP was written by "Straggler". I do not wish to presume to speak for him, but my impression is that he loathes religion.And even if he didn't, I don't see why that would be an excuse for you not to talk candidly to me.

Why? I didn't say that they were. I merely pointed out that this would be an alternative hypothesis.

There's a difference between wisdom and inspiration. For me, at least, most of the inspiration in the Bible comes from the presentation, not the content - style over substance. The proverbs, etc. make good sound bites even if the content is trite.Nobody is likely to disagree with content that is trivially true.But the real wisdom, in my opinion, is in the ideas that are not "common sense", ideas like loving your enemies or turning the other cheek.

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"It appears that many of you turn to Hebrew to escape the English...." -- Joseppi

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Why? I didn't say that they were. I merely pointed out that this would be an alternative hypothesis.

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So it was useless concerning the topic, which is about the wisdom from the Bible and didn't serve to move the discussion forward.All you've provided is another one-liner that doesn't help move the discussion forward.Your alternative hypothesis is irrelevant to the topic. If you can't curb the urge to correct or provide an alternative hypothesis that has nothing to do with moving the topic forward, please try to at least add something that is pertinent to the topic and will help to move it forward.For example: There is one parable in Matthew and two in Luke with this same sentiment. (Matthew 25: 21 & 23) (Luke 19:17)This verse comes to mind when people want me to give them more responsibility or money.This allows participants to at least respond to the portion of the post that is on topic.I find it mind boggling that Christians haven't taken this opportunity to fill this thread with verses of wisdom, lessons, or inspiration for daily living.

That was more what I had in mind.But even as things stand I have been reading with interest even if not actually contributing to this thread.

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But the real wisdom, in my opinion, is in the ideas that are not "common sense", ideas like loving your enemies or turning the other cheek.

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Unfortunately, not everyone has common sense.
Good that even common sense stuff is written down to see what has been common sense through the ages.Loving one's enemies and turning the other cheek may not seem like common sense today, but they may have been common sense for survival back then. Given that Israel was occupied off and on, to survive it is best not to irritate the people in power.Generally today the expression "turn the other cheek" means to refrain from responding to an aggressor with violence, not seeking revenge. (Matthew 5:39, Luke 6:29 )The same comment is made in Lamentations 3:30 and suggest a form of submission to oppressors, with the hope of being spared. For an occupied land, this would be common sense for survival.The author of Matthew (not Luke) contrasted the comment with the "an eye for an eye" phrase which people take to mean retaliation. In Judaism it doesn't carry that meaning. It refers to appropriate punishment or monetary compensation for physical injuries. This is done through the legal system, not necessarily the individual. (Makes me think of the satire issue I have with the Book of Matthew.)The idea of equitable compensation for loss is good. I feel today our legal system has lost the spirit of that idea.Sometimes the wisdom we glean from a verse isn't necessarily the wisdom the author was presenting. It is interesting to see the difference between what was probably understood by the original audience and what we understand today.

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The Savior said There is no sin, but it is you who make sin when you do the things that are like the nature of adultery, which is called sin. --Gospel of Mary