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Author
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Topic: When is a belief system a Mental Disorder?
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Trump won 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1266 days) Posts: 1928 Joined: 01-12-2004
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If Christ is God, then the God depicted in the OT as a violent God is not God.
Christ said their descriptions were wrong.
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macaroniandcheese
Suspended Member (Idle past 3954 days) Posts: 4258 Joined: 05-24-2004
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Message 77 of 252 (287132)
02-15-2006 8:39 PM
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Reply to: Message 76 by Trump won
02-15-2006 8:38 PM
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this is still off topic. but. do defend your statements. i'm terribly curious.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 76 by Trump won, posted 02-15-2006 8:38 PM | | Trump won has not replied |
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dorkfrommarn
Inactive Member
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Message 78 of 252 (287321)
02-16-2006 12:21 PM
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Reply to: Message 76 by Trump won
02-15-2006 8:38 PM
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If Christ is God, then the God depicted in the OT as a violent God is not God.
Christ said their descriptions were wrong. How would he not be God? Where did Christ say their descriptions were wrong?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 76 by Trump won, posted 02-15-2006 8:38 PM | | Trump won has replied |
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joshua221
Inactive Member
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wrong name :/ This message has been edited by prophex, 02-16-2006 03:10 PM
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 78 by dorkfrommarn, posted 02-16-2006 12:21 PM | | dorkfrommarn has not replied |
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Trump won
Suspended Member (Idle past 1266 days) Posts: 1928 Joined: 01-12-2004
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Matthew 5:38-48
An Eye for an Eye 38"You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.'[a] 39But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. 41If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. 42Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you. Love for Enemies 43"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' 44But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect. This message has been edited by Chris Porteus, 02-16-2006 03:24 PM
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 78 by dorkfrommarn, posted 02-16-2006 12:21 PM | | dorkfrommarn has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 81 by ramoss, posted 02-16-2006 3:34 PM | | Trump won has replied |
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ramoss
Member (Idle past 638 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: 08-11-2004
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Message 81 of 252 (287376)
02-16-2006 3:34 PM
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Reply to: Message 80 by Trump won
02-16-2006 3:19 PM
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THat is what you get for not reading the passage in context in the original language. It is better understood if you read the entire set of passagtes. That was only a small section of it. A further reading about how it doesn't mean what you claim it means can be found at Torat Emet - Mishpatim - An Eye for an Eye An extract
The answer is that understanding the Bible requires more than reading one verse. You have to read that verse in its context and compare its language with similar language throughout the Bible. Our contention is that "an eye for an eye" in its most literal and simple meaning is "an eye's worth for an eye". Let us look at the two passages in the Torah that have the phrase "an eye for an eye" and analyze them carefully. When individuals quarrel and one strikes the other with a stone or fist so that the injured party, though not dead, is confined to bed, but recovers and walks around outside with the help of a staff, then the assailant shall be free of liability, except to give for the loss of time, and to arrange for full recovery. When people who are fighting injure a pregnant woman so that there is a miscarriage, and yet no further harm follows, the one responsible shall be fined... If any harm follows, then you shall give life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe. (Exodus 21:18-19, 22-25) Anyone who kills a human being shall be put to death. Anyone who kills an animal shall make restitution for it, life for life. Anyone who maims another, what he inflicted will be done to him: fracture for fracture, eye for eye, tooth for tooth; what injury he gave to another will be given to him. One who kills an animal shall make restitution for it; but one who kills a human being shall be put to death. (Leviticus 24:17-21) Context Let us first consider the passage in Exodus. It begins in verses 18-19 with two individuals quarreling and then one injuring the other. This is a case of intentional damage. What is the punishment for such intentional damage? If the injured party survives and this is not a case of murder, then the punishment is "the assailant shall be free of liability, except to pay for the loss of time, and to arrange for full recovery". In the case of intentional damage the punishment is purely financial. (Verses 20-21 discuss intentional damage to a slave which is not our topic) Verses 22-25 discuss the case of two people who are fighting and accidentally hurt a third party. In this case of accidental damage, the punishment is an "eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand..." Is it possible that an intentional injury is only punished with monetary damages but an accidental injury is punished more harshly with an actual physical punishment?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 80 by Trump won, posted 02-16-2006 3:19 PM | | Trump won has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 82 by Trump won, posted 02-16-2006 3:55 PM | | ramoss has not replied |
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Trump won
Suspended Member (Idle past 1266 days) Posts: 1928 Joined: 01-12-2004
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Message 82 of 252 (287380)
02-16-2006 3:55 PM
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Reply to: Message 81 by ramoss
02-16-2006 3:34 PM
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When individuals quarrel and one strikes the other with a stone or fist so that the injured party, though not dead, is confined to bed, but recovers and walks around outside with the help of a staff, then the assailant shall be free of liability, except to give for the loss of time, and to arrange for full recovery. Christ said this is wrong.
When people who are fighting injure a pregnant woman so that there is a miscarriage, and yet no further harm follows, the one responsible shall be fined... If any harm follows, then you shall give life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe. Christ said this is wrong. Christ said love thy enemy. It is sin to hurt anyone through violence. Violence is sin.
quote:
Anyone who kills a human being shall be put to death. Anyone who kills an animal shall make restitution for it, life for life. Anyone who maims another, what he inflicted will be done to him: fracture for fracture, eye for eye, tooth for tooth; what injury he gave to another will be given to him. One who kills an animal shall make restitution for it; but one who kills a human being shall be put to death.
Christ said take the log out of your eye before you take the splinter from another's eye Read this please. John 13:34-35 34A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. 35By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another. This message has been edited by Chris Porteus, 02-16-2006 03:57 PM
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 81 by ramoss, posted 02-16-2006 3:34 PM | | ramoss has not replied |
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Minnemooseus
Member Posts: 3945 From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior) Joined: 11-11-2001 Member Rating: 10.0
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Message 83 of 252 (287384)
02-16-2006 4:04 PM
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Random Moose topic insertion - Believe anything, as long as it causes no harm
Disclaimer: I haven't been following this topic closely, but much of the messages seem pretty far from the central topic theme. I see no problem with people having what may be oddball beliefs. The problem is when and to what degree beliefs outside of worldly reality drive ones actions in that worldly reality. Example: A political leader may have the personal belief that the world is ending in 10 years, but that better not be a factor that drives policy making decisions (but then, perhaps this comment should have been in the "Should a young earther be allowed to hold a political office" topic). Likewise, you may have faith that God will bail you out, but it's still not a good idea to go out and try to do something stupid. Moose
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Larni
Member Posts: 4000 From: Liverpool Joined: 09-16-2005
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OP
I spend my days at work working with people using a cognitive behavioural theraputic method to help patients who suffer from cognitive distortions. These can be best thought of as 'warpy thoughts' or 'magical thinking'. People spend their lives sifting through their sensory input recieved from the outside world. We use our brain to generate rules or heuristics of reality. From these rules we can make predictions about the world. We can imagine things as the could be in the future. For the most part we are reasonably accurate enough that we can plan our day, work etc. We have to do this: otherwise we have to assess every situation in real time (be conscious of it). Doing that requires data from the out side world. If the data is faulty e.g. we are told the wrong thing, or the perceptual system is in error e.g. our brains malfunction, we can come up with rules that are wrong. These rules (right or wrong) become our beliefs. By definition we believe our beliefs. When we are angry, really really angry we feel justified to act in an angry way. This is just another belief. What we learn dicates what we believe. We can and will believe anything (beleive me, some cases which I have work on you would not believe). My whole job is spent helping patients challenge thir beliefs; not handwaving them away, but trying to falsify them. An example of this is when a depressed individual displays the neagative recall bias (in memory); he or she only remebers the bad things. The belief then follows that only bad things happen. This belief is then subjected to attempts at falsification. This method can help individuals assess his/her attitudes and beliefs and find evidence for their beliefs to create an accurate (not always correct) reflection of their world. However, when a patient cannot attempt (not succeed, only attempt) to question the beliefs held about the world I refer them to more specialist treatment. I hope this goes some way to addressing the OP. Note this is very much like the scientific method.
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macaroniandcheese
Suspended Member (Idle past 3954 days) Posts: 4258 Joined: 05-24-2004
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Message 85 of 252 (287598)
02-17-2006 10:32 AM
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Reply to: Message 73 by Murphy
02-15-2006 4:50 PM
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Re: The problem identified?
source on those ceramic toys and sunken streets please?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 73 by Murphy, posted 02-15-2006 4:50 PM | | Murphy has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 122 by Murphy, posted 02-17-2006 9:02 PM | | macaroniandcheese has not replied |
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nator
Member (Idle past 2196 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: 12-09-2001
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Re: What struck me
quote:
Think of the alternative--what sort of world one is faced with if one accepts evolution
The kind that makes sense? Oh, the horror.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 13 by robinrohan, posted 02-15-2006 6:31 AM | | robinrohan has replied |
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robinrohan
Inactive Member
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Message 87 of 252 (287704)
02-17-2006 2:30 PM
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Reply to: Message 86 by nator
02-17-2006 2:28 PM
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Re: What struck me
The kind that makes sense? The kind that's meaningless, short, and brutal.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 86 by nator, posted 02-17-2006 2:28 PM | | nator has replied |
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nator
Member (Idle past 2196 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: 12-09-2001
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Message 88 of 252 (287706)
02-17-2006 2:31 PM
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Reply to: Message 19 by Faith
02-15-2006 9:27 AM
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quote:
There is an invisible world of living beings. Believing in this is not in itself crazy. Every culture on earth has acknowledged such beings. Jesus had to deal with demons who had possessed people.
No, no, Faith, those are the space aliens, not demons, not invisible beings. They are just highly advanced beings with technology we can't understand. You people who believe they are supernatural are exactly like the cargo cult people.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 19 by Faith, posted 02-15-2006 9:27 AM | | Faith has not replied |
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SuperNintendo Chalmers
Member (Idle past 5860 days) Posts: 772 From: Bartlett, IL, USA Joined: 12-27-2005
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huh?
The kind that's meaningless, short, and brutal. My life is not meaningless My life has not been brutal My life actually seems like it has lasted quite awhile and I am still quite young (29). I guess that kills that idea.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 87 by robinrohan, posted 02-17-2006 2:30 PM | | robinrohan has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 96 by robinrohan, posted 02-17-2006 3:49 PM | | SuperNintendo Chalmers has not replied |
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nator
Member (Idle past 2196 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: 12-09-2001
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Message 90 of 252 (287709)
02-17-2006 2:33 PM
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Reply to: Message 27 by Faith
02-15-2006 10:11 AM
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quote:
God never told an individual to kill anyone.
How do you know?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 27 by Faith, posted 02-15-2006 10:11 AM | | Faith has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 91 by 1.61803, posted 02-17-2006 2:36 PM | | nator has not replied |
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