Thoughts On Robin Collins and the Many Universe Generator

My post about the possibility of you existing is directly relevant to this. Do you find the arguments in it persuasive?>>Can't say that I do, because my particular genetic code is a VARIABLE.......the existence of, for instance, the inflationary field ISN'T.

Could you tell me what the odds are of a designer existing and whst it means for intelligence to exist outside of the materialistic brains within which reside our conscious intelligencewhich is the only intelligence we know of.Take away the brain and what have you got for intelligence?
Where would you postulate the designer came from and since the designer should be orders of magnitude more complex than that which it designed what designed that complex designer?>>This is an argument which a few of you have repeated now, and I don't see the validity in it. PHYSICAL phenomonon require a cause and mechanisms........spiritual ones don't. That's the DEFINITION of metaphysical.Also if the universe is fine-tuned for life why do we not find the universe teeming with life? >>For all we know, it is..........but the odds are against that.......and that's because most galaxies, solar systems, planets and stars are NOT fine-tuned for life.........however, a UNIVERSE that was not fine-tuned for life wouldn't have planets, solar systems and stars.

Basically, the definition of a fine-tuned universe is a universe where Earth-like planets can form........

This is bull crap.>>Ah, Einstein's famous "everything I don't like is crap" principle..........

Jasonchin Then how do you determine a spiritual existence if it has neither a cause nor an effect? And can you explain what the spirit amounts to?How do we determine that such a thing exists other than in our minds?Please also answer the question you missed.

So your argument relies on evidence you're not able to understand?>>What, you understand the math behind the theory of relativity? No, you accept it because no one with real knowledge of the mathematics involved refutes it.Same with the fine-tuning of the universe. And don't continue this frankly ignorant line of argument until you can quote me a reputable source which says that our universe doesn't have multiple variables which are set precisely to allow the existance of life.Did you even look up what I was talking about? I doubt it. Each of those is a stellar nursery where we can observe stars forming. It's exactly what you asked for.>>Just like we "observe" supernove when we see bright flashes of light in the sky...........there's a difference between seeing indicatory phenomonon and observing the step-by-step process.......

JasonchinYou may also like to check out this website concerning fine-tuning criteria http://alumnus.caltech.edu/~johnm/Fine-Tuned-Design.txt

Then how do you determine a spiritual existence if it has neither a cause nor an effect?>>I didn't say it didn't have EFFECT........And can you explain what the spirit amounts to?How do we determine that such a thing exists other than in our minds?>>Because of the design inherant in the "many universe generator" which couldn't have possibly had a physical cause........that's the entirety of Collins' argument.Where would you postulate the designer came from and since the designer should be orders of magnitude more complex than that which it designed what designed that complex designer?>>This is inexplicable if the designer is metaphysical. Just like the many universe generator is inexplicable (as none of you have even made a real ATTEMPT to explain it, which disappoints me) apart from a designer.Difference being, the many universe generator is PHYSICAL, therefore any design inherant in it MUST have an explaination.This message has been edited by JasonChin, 10-11-2004 03:13 AM

JASON, this is the third thread I have been trying to contact you in. PLEASE read Assistance w/ Forum FormattingPlease respond that you have read and understood my posts to you.

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AdminAsgara
Queen of the Universe

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Sidelined, thanks for the link.

Admin, gotcha........

Jasonchin That is true,you did not sir. Care to make up the omission?

Well, obviously, in order to create the multiverse generator, God would have to be able to effect the physical realm.

JasonchinAnd what would be the means by which a non-physical entity can affect a physical universe unless we are wishing to invoke magic?

Please use those quote boxes I showed you how to use, Jason, it'd make your replies easier to read. The universe does, yes, geology does not - and the universe does it through processes we're beginning to understand. None of which are any where near as complicated as the 'designer' use wish to posit to explain them.