The End Of Faith: Religion, Terror, and the Future of Reason

From Sam Harris | Home of the Making Sense Podcast : I'm almost 100 pages deep into Harris's provacative book and it's great. Harris does a great job at illustrating the extreme nature of fundamentalist Islam, Christianity, and Judaism.He recommends a conversational intolerance to faith-based reasoning. Why do people get a pass on what they believe when it comes to their religion?If you're interested in hearing what Harris has to say before reading the book, you can see him on youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3YOIImOoYMHas anyone read this book? Thoughts?

Could you go into this aspect a little more? Do you refer to a mature discussion, but one founded on not automatically accepting a person’s religious beliefs?Edited by Rascaduanok, : No reason given.

Chief Infidel hasn't posted in nearly a year, so if I might step in... That pretty much captures it. Harris objects to the free pass religiously founded beliefs traditionally receive. He believes even the most innocuous religious beliefs, simply because they are not based upon the real world, can be dangerous. He is fond of pointing out the dangers by noting the fact that belief in Jihad and that martyring oneself means one will receive 72 virgins in heaven can cause engineers and architects (i.e., people with education) to fly planes into buildings.Glancing at your blog, I'm guessing you're either Islamic or sympathetic toward Islam, or at least accepting of it as just another of the world's great religions. Be aware that Harris attacks Islam as a violent religion. He often contrasts it to Buddhism, asking rhetorically whether one could imagine a group of Buddhist monks flying a plane into a building, and he holds traditional religion (i.e., Catholics, Methodists, Baptists, etc.) culpable for providing the support for a cultural norm where religious beliefs aren't questioned, no matter how dangerous. One example he uses is drugs. Hallucinogenic drugs are illegal, unless you're an adherent to the religious beliefs of certain Indian tribes of the southwestern United States.Watch the video provided in the opening post. I don't know if I've seen that particular one, but I've seen several Harris videos, he always makes the same points, but the videos are very engrossing even when you know precisely which points he's about to make, just because he constructs his arguments so well. Just be prepared for the criticism of Islam.I like the self-replicating Perl script in your signature. Are you a Perl aficionado? We're always looking for donations of Perl expertise for website development here.--Percy

Is it even possible to prevent the encroachment of organized religion into world politics? As long as fundamentalists get elected to public office, there is not much that can be done. I would be curious to read what Sam Harris' solution to these problems is. I shall read the book. It is on my list, now. Evidently, Richard Dawkins also critiqued the book.Read what Sir.Richard had to say here. There is another quote from the book that Dawkins had on his website: Edited by Phat, : clarificationEdited by Phat, : added features

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Convictions are very different from intentions. Convictions are something God gives us that we have to do. Intentions are things that we ought to do, but we never follow through with them.
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“The world has achieved brilliance without wisdom, power without conscience. Ours is a world of nuclear giants and ethical infants.”
--General Omar Bradley

Sorry, life pulled me away for a year or so. The good news is that as of yesterday I am now Chief Infidel, JD.Percy covered the question. Harris says that conversational intolerance isn't about berating the old lady who you see wearing a cross in the elevator. It's about calling out the 'conversation stoppers' of unfounded faith. In other words, if someone debating stem cell research says that research on 150 cell blastocites is murder--and they know this because their faith/church/pastor and no other reason--that we shouldn't simply "respect their religion," but instead ask them for real, good reasons for their arguments.

I can completely understand that. I have problems with it myself, but a lot of that comes from the actions of people in various muslim communities. Many people online fondly point out how much liberation the introduction of Islam gave to women back in Muhammad’s time. I like to ask these same people how much of that liberation do we see now? Saudi Arabian scholars give fataawa (plural of ”fatwa’, and refers to a legal edict based on Islamic law, and not, as some believe, a ”death sentence’) on how ! I have found a link to someone citing an actual fatwa, but cannot locate such a proclamation online at the moment.I think confrontation; people attacking my culture even though I’ve grown up amongst completely ”normal’ people who want to live their own lives like everyone else in this country (England); lumping me in as a ”terrorist sympathiser’ despite my outspoken views supporting the rights of atheists, Jews, Christians, Hindus, etc. to believe what they want to believe; and all other eccentricities of this sort has pushed me a little towards defending my community and some aspects of culture, as well as what I see as positive points in my religion.My life feels filled with doubt, though. That remains a centrepiece in my life at various times and to varying degrees: doubt in myself, other people, religion, God, science, and suchlike. I have no doubts about that. As someone taking up training in Boxing I think I can take it on the chin, haha. Most people do perceive it as a violent religion. My personal views on this would run into offtopic territory here, but I would have no idea where to post them, except on my blog. Suffice it to say, though, that Bram Stoker probably voiced this best when he had Jonathan Harker write: “I doubt; I fear; I think strange things which I dare not confess to my own soul.” I wish I could lay claim to that script! I have only recently started attempting to learn Perl and that little piece caught my eye. I like it for its practical as well as ”mystical’ properties (fulfils itself, hides no programming, etc). Excellent point, Chief Infidel. I think many people ”react’ to a lot of situations without any thought or analysis, stay stubborn, and fall back on monolithic rules and ”laws’ which they never tend to question. I try to reach into the heart of each matter. Split the problem/situation open at the sternum utilising my massive Shoulder Muscles of Logic to give me leverage, and then use my Teeth of Reason tear out the still-beating heart of . Erm, I’ve taken that analogy a little too far, I think!

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congratulations!
i'm now brennakimi, MA.

I am amused by the sympathes of Islam posted here (and on all the other forums on the web). In Northern Ireland, and many other western countries, Islam by Islamic writers is required reading in the public schools.Whoever pulled that one off was a "shaker!""Shakers" are men who really get things done that greatly affect the world.A few are Alexander the Great, Muhammad, Napoleon, Hitler, Japan in the Second World War, Henry Ford, Alexander Graham Bell, our own "Windows" inventors and publishers.But none of these affected as many nations worldwide for as many centuries as Iesous Anointed (Jesus Christ to papists)."... Congress shall pass no law respecting an establishment of religion .."I was a former citizen of the United States. The USA was a nation ruled by the US Constitution. But the Bill of Rights, and the rest of the Constitution are long gone.The news announced in the past week, that our Supreme Court (of "pinko" judges) ruled men canot sue for the full value of a property insurance policy. They suggested instead, the victim be limited to the cost of his premiums in bogus property insurance claims. [How would you like that?]Two days later, they documented Supreme Court decisions that you can only sue for 70 cents on the dollar, to recover your premiums -- and the original policy is still off-limits for American lawsuits.Everyone would expect this from a nation that creates wars by aggressive invasions, and boasted constantly of torturing prisoners of war. "Mr. Bankruptcy" (Rumsfeld) bragged of "sleep depprivasion," his replacement has boasted that "water-boarding" is not torture, the Secretary of State (Ashcroft) boasted of "sleep deprivation."Two television series, "NCIS" and "24" had shows of American military torture of prisoners before the press reported the first case in the Baghdad prison. "NCIS" had a court martial acquit a woman who had comitted murder. This is a wholesome environment for your children,But then, back to Kaiser Wilhelm. He and the Ottoman Turks (Muslims), and Austria-Hungary, tried to conquer the world together.The final treaty establishing the permament borders of Turkey, was in 1923.Osama bin Laden referred to that date in history, and said, "The whole world is against the Muslims." It was really only 21 nations.
Did Osama expect them to take it lying down, as we are doing today?There are Muslim civil wars throughout Africa, Macedonia, Spain, Serbia (Why did president Clinton fight for the Muslims?), Indonesia, Pakistan, India, and the Untied States.How do the "lovers of Islam" on this forum justify their support for terrorism? I would really like to know!sl33w