Vent your frustration here

Jaderis, Ringo is trying to confuse. There is obviously no difference in the woman, no matter who is attracted to her. I honestly don't know what being attracted to someone has to do with what is moral.

I do agree with the point riVeRraT is making. There is a difference. I don't quite understand the disagreement here. I fail to see the bigotry really. If I make the observation that the avatar for Ringo is a white female does that mean I am also a bigot? A female attracted to a female is obviously different than a male attracted to the same female. I fail to see any right or wrong in the conclusion, but I would safely say that its different.Is it then also wrong to say that a white person differs from a black person? There is a difference. I believe that bigotry is when a person makes conclusions about intelligence, morality, etc from such observations.

I don't know either, but Ringo is not implying that there would be a difference in the woman (or any diference at all). He is simply asking Rat what he thinks is the difference between a man's attraction to a woman and a woman's attraction to a woman? It has nothing to do with the woman they are attracted to.Ringo is not trying to confuse Rat. He is asking a very straightforward question and Rat has been evading it.

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"You are metaphysicians. You can prove anything by metaphysics; and having done so, every metaphysician can prove every other metaphysician wrong--to his own satisfaction. You are anarchists in the realm of thought. And you are mad cosmos-makers. Each of you dwells in a cosmos of his own making, created out of his own fancies and desires. You do not know the real world in which you live, and your thinking has no place in the real world except in so far as it is phenomena of mental aberration." -The Iron Heel by Jack London

I haven't been involved in the bigotry accusations so I won't reply to those points. Agreed. One is a male and one is a female.That is not the question, tho. The question is how is the attraction different?

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"You are metaphysicians. You can prove anything by metaphysics; and having done so, every metaphysician can prove every other metaphysician wrong--to his own satisfaction. You are anarchists in the realm of thought. And you are mad cosmos-makers. Each of you dwells in a cosmos of his own making, created out of his own fancies and desires. You do not know the real world in which you live, and your thinking has no place in the real world except in so far as it is phenomena of mental aberration." -The Iron Heel by Jack London

If the difference is so "obvious", kindly tell us what it is, since riVeRraT has not been able to. You're missing my point. Is there a difference between a black person's attraction to a black person and a white person's attraction to the same black person?

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i'm a male.i'm attracted to females.ergo, females are attractive.ergo, it's normal to be attracted to females regardless of gender.i'm not attracted to males.ergo, males are icky.ergo, it's not normal to be attracted to males if you're a male.look good to me!

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I checked further back in the thread (sorry for having not caught up first) and yes, I did miss your point. To answer your question - no. The difference would only be in statistics, I would assume it happens less often. These are two different questions however. The first has the obvious answer. I believe thats what riVeRraT meant when he said "you would not be able to ask me that question". The second question perhaps has no answer or is simply none.

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Not true. Most of what mike has been saying is pretty standard and has been pulled from the collective behinds of theologians, particularly within the RCC. Didn't you used to be Catholic?

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Er, yeah, I used to be Catholic.Just because other people have found the stuff Mike is saying in their own asses doesn't make what he's been saying any less nonsensical.Bullshit + more bullshit x even more bullshit /= Sense or Truth or WisdomIt is just a big pile of crap.

Anastasia, Ringo isn't talking about morality for now. SHE's asking riverrat, and now Vacate, a very simple question. Both Vacate and riverrat have claimed that the answer is so obvious that they both have so far refused to answer.Ringo's simple question has helped me greatly by opening up my mind to a whole new approach to human sexuality that I'd never considered before. Instead of trying to understand Ringo's point (which I think is very worthy of at least a minute of your time to think about), you guys have been dismissing it outright.

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Disclaimer:

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Occasionally, owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have used he/him/his meaning he or she/him or her/his or her in order to avoid awkwardness of style.

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He, him, and his are not intended as exclusively masculine pronouns. They may refer to either sex or to both sexes!

No, that is not what I meant, but thanks for stepping in.If male/female, white/black attraction was the same thing, he would not be able to ask me that question.The question would be worded the same.It is like arachnophilla wrote. (except arac used it as a basis for bigotry)
Not all men, like other men, not all whites, like blacks, not all blacks like whites, and not all females like females.Right now, I could be attracted to any race female.
If tomorrow, I somehow started liking only black females, I would have went through a change. So I am not the same. There is an obvious difference.If I say I don't like pink, and you say, I do like pink, we could look at each other and say we are different.
We both like colors, just not the same one, hence a difference.Doesn't make it wrong, just different. People need to get over bigotedphobia.Now if I started treating you special, just because you liked pink, then we would have a problem.{ABE}(added by edit)
I fully understand it is this difference where all bigotry starts, but it doesn't have to be.Edited by riVeRraT, : No reason given.Edited by riVeRraT, : No reason given.

I'll make a few corrections, because you did not represent me at all. Arac, you like men, I like women, are we exactly the same?

I actually am trying to understand it, cause if it can make sense, it might open my mind as well. (not joking)

I don't know any Christian that would say that you can't know God, or love Him with all your heart, soul, and mind as a homosexual-- since homosexuality is no different from any other type of sexual sin.Fornicators can know God. Adulterers can know God. The issue is what sin does in our ability to hear Him. Whenever I am in the wrong, there is that telltale sign when He removes His lampstand from me. Its palpable.You can't just say, "Well, I love God, therefore, I can do whatever He says not to do and I will always be absolved."Jesus said to people of this mindset, "Why do you say that you love Me, yet keep not My commandments?"He has a good point here and it would be well with us to fully grasp what He is saying.

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"It is not the critic who counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbled, or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena; whose face is marred by the dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions and spends himself in a worthy course; who at the best, knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who, at worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly; so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory or defeat." -Theodore Roosevelt

Ringo made clear to me that what she was asking was not the simple difference between a man liking a woman and a woman liking a woman. I still say that such an observation is quite obvious. This isn't a refusal to answer the question, but a misunderstanding of her point.So to be more direct on her point: My answer was "none". I don't see how to answer the question. What is attraction? Hormones play a major role, but so can upbringing and life experiences; though I don't believe this is a major factor for homosexuals, I believe thats from birth. I have also heard the idea that it could be an evolutionary response to population control, the idea makes sense to me but I am not sure how one would proove it. These suggestions are causes, what is the difference? None.What causes me to like women? My examples above are the likely cause, I can sum it up to say "I just do". The same can be said about what causes a woman to be attracted to a woman "she just does". Whats the difference? None! I believe its worth a lot more than a minute, and I have not dismissed it outright. Though I still think I am misunderstanding exactly what Ringo is trying to say, I think its unfair to say that I have dismissed the idea.

I can only know what the will of God is generally by looking at the scriptures I believe in, which are mainly the NT and the prophets. If it is pretty clear, then I go along with it I guess. I figured this.What is it that I have said that is getting you frustrated?