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Author Topic:   Expanding time?
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 31 of 143 (451014)
01-25-2008 4:12 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by ICANT
01-25-2008 4:07 PM


time
Did 08-20-2022 5:56 PM evolve?
The origins of time aren't relevant here. Hawking has done some work on describing a universe where time was once space-like and there was a transition as it became less space-like. It's all very confusing, and it is unclear how similar our universe is to the one Hawking described.
Did we create it ourselves?
No.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by ICANT, posted 01-25-2008 4:07 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by ICANT, posted 01-25-2008 4:55 PM Modulous has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 32 of 143 (451021)
01-25-2008 4:51 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by New Cat's Eye
01-25-2008 11:31 AM


Re: Re-Expansion
Hi Scientist,
Catholic Scientist writes:
Make sense?
I think so.
If you could put four raisins 2 inches apart in a cake dough and them not move at all which would take a very thick batter. Bake the cake the raisins would probably be 3 inches apart in the finished cake. The dough would have expanded and thus make the difference.
It is just easier for me to understand to say the space between them grows and causes them to move apart. The distance does get greater.
Catholic Scientist writes:
Just don't let the Bible get in the way of your understanding of reality. If we determine that the universe is not eternal, would you reject that determination in favor of your belief?
I do not think my believing that the universe is eternal in some form is in jeopardy at all.
Super string theory is about expansion, contraction, expansion, contraction forever. That way no one needs to explain where all this stuff we see came from.
That way we don't have to worry about whether time expands or it just is.

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

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ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 33 of 143 (451022)
01-25-2008 4:55 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by Modulous
01-25-2008 4:12 PM


Re: time
Hi Mod,
ICANT writes:
Did we create it ourselves?
Modulous writes:
No
"It" being time where did it come from?
Thanks,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by Modulous, posted 01-25-2008 4:12 PM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
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Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 34 of 143 (451023)
01-25-2008 5:02 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by ICANT
01-25-2008 4:55 PM


Re: time
"It" being time where did it come from?
Right, it being time. We didn't create it ourselves. It's origins are not really on topic here, and as I have said several times, I'm not the person to attempt to answer that question. Once again, one must be careful: 'Where' implies a spatial question but we are talking about the time dimension, and whilst it might make sense in a certain context - it can quickly lead to massive amounts of confusion.

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johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5591 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 35 of 143 (451037)
01-25-2008 6:34 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by New Cat's Eye
01-25-2008 2:28 PM


Re: Re-Expansion
First off: Huh!?
I was just putting strings to your sphere model like connecting the present with the past and the future.
Are you saying that you think that there is some force between the galaxies that is causing time, which is also between the galaxies, to expand, which is the force that causes space to expand?
No, I think time had already been created but yes time exists between the galaxies and that some force is bleeding thru some of these longitude strings that go backwards in time into laditude strings in our universe of the present.
What are you looking at that makes it seem that way?
The theory of relativity meaning light looks like its being red shifted so space distances is increasing causing light to red shift and the galaxies are not moving due to the picture of it is not changing over time yet spacial dimensions are said to be increasing.
You think that time is causing the force that is causing the expansion?
No, Lets just say some force (God alone) is bubbling out space from the past and that thru superstrings of energy the past present and future are inter related. He likely is just increasing space from the present if nothing can be increased because its nothing then if the galaxies are not moving then nothing has increased.
BBC NEWS | Science/Nature | Great 'cosmic nothingness' found
I honestly don't understand what you are trying to get across.
I'm not sure I do either lets say (God alone is opening little windows into the past letting space pass thru increasing spacial dimensions into our present to future universe. It would be kind of like time travel bleeding space from the past to the present which would mean time has not increased only the spacial dimensions has increased?
Edited by johnfolton, : No reason given.
Edited by johnfolton, : No reason given.
Edited by johnfolton, : No reason given.
Edited by johnfolton, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 36 of 143 (451191)
01-26-2008 5:30 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by johnfolton
01-25-2008 6:34 PM


Re: Re-Expansion
God alone is opening little windows into the past letting space pass thru increasing spacial dimensions into our present to future universe.
Okay, I think I can now see the picture you're painting....
The above analogy helped the most combined the whole bleeding through description and:
(God alone) is bubbling out space from the past
So, in this picture, we have space emerging, not from somewhere but, from somewhen.
I don't really have any information to provide to suggest any error or accuracy in that.
Thanks for sharing it with me, though. I think its a cool picture

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john6zx
Member (Idle past 4821 days)
Posts: 66
Joined: 01-27-2007


Message 37 of 143 (463241)
04-14-2008 12:52 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by Modulous
01-24-2008 9:20 PM


Quote from Modulous.
The spacial dimensions are increasing, as predicted by cosmological models that are generally put under the umbrella of 'big bang'. The 'big bang' is not an explosion that provides impetus, the 'big bang' is just the expansion of space during the early universe through time. Modern cosmology has this early period of expansion as being extremely rapid.
Are you suggesting that spatial dimensions are a physical thing that can expand?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Modulous, posted 01-24-2008 9:20 PM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by Modulous, posted 04-14-2008 6:31 AM john6zx has replied

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 38 of 143 (463244)
04-14-2008 6:31 AM
Reply to: Message 37 by john6zx
04-14-2008 12:52 AM


Are you suggesting that spatial dimensions are a physical thing that can expand?
I wouldn't go so far as to suggest that spatial dimensions are a physical thing, no.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by john6zx, posted 04-14-2008 12:52 AM john6zx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by john6zx, posted 04-27-2008 4:17 AM Modulous has replied

  
john6zx
Member (Idle past 4821 days)
Posts: 66
Joined: 01-27-2007


Message 39 of 143 (464553)
04-27-2008 4:17 AM
Reply to: Message 38 by Modulous
04-14-2008 6:31 AM


Quotes from Modulous.
"The spacial dimensions are increasing, as predicted by cosmological models that are generally put under the umbrella of 'big bang'. The 'big bang' is not an explosion that provides impetus, the 'big bang' is just the expansion of space during the early universe through time. Modern cosmology has this early period of expansion as being extremely rapid."
"I wouldn't go so far as to suggest that spatial dimensions are a physical thing, no."
__So what do you mean expanding? What is expanding? In what way do you think dimensions exist?__

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by Modulous, posted 04-14-2008 6:31 AM Modulous has replied

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john6zx
Member (Idle past 4821 days)
Posts: 66
Joined: 01-27-2007


Message 40 of 143 (464554)
04-27-2008 4:24 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by bluescat48
01-25-2008 7:22 AM


Re: Re-Expansion
quote by bluescat48
"You answered your own question. Man, since he wants to know how long ago an event ie: big bang, he had to invent a scale of reference, that is, time."
That is right. Time is a concept and not a physical thing.

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Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 41 of 143 (464562)
04-27-2008 6:50 AM
Reply to: Message 39 by john6zx
04-27-2008 4:17 AM


So what do you mean expanding?
Increasing through time, there's more space now, than there was when you wrote your post.
What is expanding?
Space.
In what way do you think dimensions exist?
I think thinking of them as 'physical' puts us in danger of thinking about them in the wrong way. I'll just provide a quote, since in this topic I defer to the experts:
Einstein writes:
Space-time does not claim existence in its own right, but only as a structural quality of the [gravitational] field.

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 Message 39 by john6zx, posted 04-27-2008 4:17 AM john6zx has not replied

  
john6zx
Member (Idle past 4821 days)
Posts: 66
Joined: 01-27-2007


Message 42 of 143 (465432)
05-06-2008 11:29 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by Modulous
01-25-2008 8:22 AM


Re: Re-Expansion
Quote from Modulous
Time, and its existence, are real. That most life forms, do not perceive it to the level we do does not influence it. The universe has four dimensions as part of its existence (maybe more), that's just the way it is. Some animals have evolved not only the awareness of the spacial dimensions, but they are also aware of the time dimensions. They neither measure space nor time (they have built in tape measures too).
In what way do you think time is real and exists? Do you think time is a physical thing or a concept?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by Modulous, posted 01-25-2008 8:22 AM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by Modulous, posted 05-07-2008 10:16 AM john6zx has replied

  
john6zx
Member (Idle past 4821 days)
Posts: 66
Joined: 01-27-2007


Message 43 of 143 (465433)
05-06-2008 11:53 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Modulous
01-24-2008 11:37 PM


Re: Re-Expansion
I have read many of your posts and I can see that you have some strong opinions on many subjects. I am glad to see that you have much to contribute to this topic, and I want you to continue to do so. With this said, I do not want you to think that I am singling you out in any questions or comments that I have on what you say. Since you seem to be very confident in your statements and seem to have much to say, I thought that you would be a good sounding board for some of my own questions that I have on the nature of the universe. If my questions seem too simplistic or a bit picky, please do not take it as though I might be mocking you, I just like to get to the heart of the subject and put things in a simple uncluttered perspective.
Here is a quote from you.
If you lived in this universe where you could not see north or south, only east and west, you'd reckon the universe to be about 1100 metres in length.
From what reference are you using to get your directions? East in reference to what for example. And what do you mean by SEE East and West?
Thank You.
john6zx

This message is a reply to:
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john6zx
Member (Idle past 4821 days)
Posts: 66
Joined: 01-27-2007


Message 44 of 143 (465435)
05-06-2008 11:59 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by ICANT
01-25-2008 11:00 AM


Re: Re-Expansion
Quote from ICANT.
I am a Bible thumper so I have some really weird ideas, according to other Bible thumpers.
I believe that everything has always been here in some form, in what I call eternity.
Time is something we have here to mark our journey.
When time ceases as we know it, be it by our hand, implosion, or some other means eternity will continue on.
As I understand it the stuff the universe is composed of cannot go out of existence. Correct me if I am wrong.
Yes I would say that you have some "different" ideas. If time ceases, yet eternity persists, well then there is still time. Right?

This message is a reply to:
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john6zx
Member (Idle past 4821 days)
Posts: 66
Joined: 01-27-2007


Message 45 of 143 (465442)
05-07-2008 12:33 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by Modulous
01-25-2008 11:23 AM


Re: Re-Expansion
Quotes from Modulous.
There is definitely a dimension called time.
O.K. Lets really get to the basics on this statement. From the above quote it sounds like you are saying that a dimension is a thing. A physical thing. Is this what you are saying?
Of course, one could resort to the Cartesian demon idea and say that everything but 'I' could well be an illusion but that isn't productive discussion. So yes, time exists.
Our perception of it, is quite different from our perception of space and it seems that time works slightly differently than space.
Our perception of it(time), What do you mean here? Percieved in what way? With what perceptics?
Why this should be the case is something of a mystery. And one that is not really the topic here - I wouldn't dream of attempting to answer the question. Perhaps you'd be better off if you read Thread What is Time and Space in Forum Big Bang and Cosmology?
I browsed through the above thread and no real definitive answers as to what time is.
Let me share with you my definition of time that is basically from what I have learned through reading, conversation, and observation.
Please comment on this if you disagree with it.
Time is actually a consideration based on our perception of the movement of objects. There is a distance, there is a velocity of the objects travel, and that movement of that object or particle in relationship to its starting point and in relationship to its ending point is what gives us the idea of time. Time is a manifestation which has no existence beyond the idea of time brought about by the motion of objects, where an object may be either energy or matter. Time is not a thing that flows. Time does not move or cause things to move. It is this perception of motion which gives us the idea of time.
Thank You.
john6zx

This message is a reply to:
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