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Member (Idle past 1404 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Semantics of Cults: What's a cult? | |||||||||||||||||||
kjsimons Member Posts: 821 From: Orlando,FL Joined: Member Rating: 6.7 |
Well that's the definition of a cult from the cult of Christ's point of view!
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
RAZD writes: Walks like a cult leader, talks like a cult leader... What about John Calvin?
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pbee Member (Idle past 6027 days) Posts: 339 Joined: |
quote: I love the definition. From the get go we can observe the limitations. In other words, a cult is any sect identified by opposing doctrines. While a Christian will claim Muslims of cult worship, Muslims will claim Christians(faith of a mule) as being a cult. Why? because both believe they are right. The entire term and concept is nothing but a an underlying stab at religious discrimination which fits hand in hand with *pagan worship.Don't share in my beliefs? well your in a cult.
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macaroniandcheese  Suspended Member (Idle past 3927 days) Posts: 4258 Joined: |
i said this before, nobody listened to me. they claimed i hadn't read the thread.
i'm not going to capitalize my posts, get better eyes.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1404 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
As pointed out in the OP I didn't want to dwell on the negative and subjective aspects. That would mean using something more in line with definition 2. So we can delete the negative & subjective element from what we are looking at here:
quote: Also as noted in the OP the word did not used to have a negative connotation, but was more like sect in description. Several ancient beliefs were described as cults without the negative connotation.
While a Christian will claim Muslims of cult worship, Muslims will claim Christians(faith of a mule) as being a cult. This has more to do with devaluing all other religions (something most religions do to all other beliefs) than with the beliefs really being cults.
The entire term and concept is nothing but a an underlying stab at religious discrimination which fits hand in hand with *pagan worship. Thanks for making my point on devaluing other beliefs ... So is a cult under the domination of a charismatic leader, but a sect has matured (possibly after the death\removal of the charismatic leader) somehow? David Koresh was a charismatic cult leader by most people's views. Is Dobson? Robertson? Ted Haggard? {abe}BTW It is also instructive to look at the definition of sect:
Definition 2 is more like cult 1a ...{/abe} Enjoy. Edited by RAZD, : sect def compare Fiocruz Genome and fight Muscular Dystrophy with Team EvC! (click) we are limited in our ability to understand by our ability to understand RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share.
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Archer Opteryx Member (Idle past 3597 days) Posts: 1811 From: East Asia Joined: |
It's fashionable to think of all religions as pretty much the same and the label 'cult' as just one of the religious pots calling another one of the religious kettles black.
People who actually make cults a serious object of research--such as the psychologists who help people deal with the wreckage--recognize characteristic features that define cult behaviour. These characteristics are not typical of all groups--even all religious groups. One important and measurable feature of cult groups is personality change. The people who join most groups--the Tri-Delta sorority, the Democratic Party, the Marine Corps, the Order of Saint Benedict, the EvC internet forum--retain their essential personalities after joining. Introverts remain introverts and extraverts remain extraverts. Athletic types remain athletic types, artistic types remain artistic types, gearheads remain gearheads. Not so in cults. In cults, newcomers display the same mix of personalities at the time they join as any other population--but show, a year or two later, a decided skew. The skew is toward a single personality type: the personality of the group's leader. The people will tell you they are the 'happiest they have ever been'--yet, when asked about details, show more anxiety all across the board. They express less self-acceptance of the way they are and express more anxiety about 'doing better.' These skews are measurable. This skew is accompanied by daily top-down control of the individual's environment, circle of friends, contacts with outsiders, etc. Cults routinely fleece members of money, deprive them of the companionship of lifelong friends, and re-arrange their life goals by constantly threatening to withdraw from members the only support network they have been permitted to have. It is this control of member's lives and thought that distinguishes cults. You can build a cult around any idea. Cults are often built around religious ideas, but not always. They can be built around political causes (left or right), business ideas, science fiction scenarios (Heaven's Gate), anything. Those looking for a better understanding of cults, and a working definition of them, would do well, as a first stop, to explore the web sites mounted by people who have left them. RightCyberUp, for example, is a web site managed by former members of the International Church of Christ (ICOC or ICC--also 'Boston Movement" and 'Crossroads Movement'). You can find some discussion of the characteristics of cults and the research models that exist for exploring them at this page: Page not found - Right Cyberup You might feel you've wandered into the middle of a conversation at such sites, though, because you have. The focus of such sites is practical. Former members of abusive groups are talking to each other, coming to terms with the treatment they have endured and hoping to make contacts with former friends who remain inside. As you will see, there is a great deal to get over. _______ Edited by Archer Opterix, : typo repair. Edited by Archer Opterix, : html. Edited by Archer Opterix, : html. Archer All species are transitional.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1404 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
People who actually make cults a serious object of research--such as the psychologists who help people deal with the wreckage--recognize characteristic features that define cult behaviour. These characteristics are not typical of all groups--even all religious groups. This is more the direction I wanted to go with this topic. Thanks.
One important and measurable feature of cult groups is personality change. How do you measure this for people brought up in the system? I'm thinking of the 14 yr old FLDS\mormon girl in the spouse\leader rape case as an example (news item 14-year-old bride sobs, describes wedding at polygamist leader's trial). This is not "picking on" mormons but is just an example from current news.
The people who join most groups--... the Marine Corps,...--retain their essential personalities after joining. There is evidence of mind control techniques being used in basic training, and I would submit that there is some measurable personality change as a result, but this is a minor quibble. The point would be that mind control techniques are often used by cults, and these techniques are identifiable.
These skews are measurable. This skew is accompanied by daily top-down control of the individual's environment, circle of friends, contacts with outsiders, etc. This would apply to religious communities (like the mormon enclave referred to above), as well as the Jones sect, Koresh, etc. We also see this in the effect of some foreign religious schools (Red Mosque in Pakistan?).
You might feel you've wandered into the middle of a conversation at such sites, though, because you have. The focus of such sites is practical. Former members of abusive groups are talking to each other, coming to terms with the treatment they have endured and hoping to make contacts with former friends who remain inside. As you will see, there is a great deal to get over. And being "debriefed" from the mind control. Learning what happened to them. So where do we draw the line between total domination cults and less invasive but still coercive sects that use mind control techniques to control their followers? Do the mormon\FLDS polygamists above fit the cult designation based on use of mind control and coercion? Does Fred Phelps? Enjoy. compare Fiocruz Genome and fight Muscular Dystrophy with Team EvC! (click) we are limited in our ability to understand by our ability to understand RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share.
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