Innevitable Armageddon (theory)

This peace-loving nature of God you claim flies in the face of your his warmongering nature of your god in the Bible as well as your own previous statements extolling armageddon: Even Jesus says

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For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
Dr. Carl Sagan

Thank you for the exchange. lolThat last comment was more tongue in cheek. Even after posting 'believe', I couldn't get the words 'offer crediblity' out of my head ...Shoulda made the edit.One LoveEdited by Bailey, : grammar

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I'm not here to mock or condemn what you believe, I'm just a fool playing with ideas.
My only intention is to tickle your thinker. Trust nothing I say. Learn for yourself.
Think for yourself.Mercy Trumps Judgement,
Love Weary

as a person yourself who chose to fight a war, you no doubt did so because you believed it was the only way to accomplish some sort of peace?Is it so unreasonable to believe that God might see a need for war under certain circumstances?

Armageddon is not inevitable in this context because Armageddon is a myth.And Armageddon tired of it! ; - )

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Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

First, I did not CHOOSE to fight a war. I choose to serve in the United States military to defend the rights and freedoms granted to my country by its Constitution. If I am ordered to fight in a war than I am willingly or unwillingly obligated to fight that war. However that does not mean I have to (privately) agree with the reasons we went to war in the first place though publically I cannot express this opinion due to the obvious conflict of interest and negative image it would give to the military (which could potentially weaken its resolve). Did God abide by the internationally recognised Geneva Convention, NATO and U.S. military rules of engagement, the Uniform Code of Military Justice, or any of the other hundreds of Laws of Armed Conflict that helps protect against unwanton and needless suffering?I think not. If your blood-thirsty god was tried in at the International Code of Justice at the Hague or by a military tribunal in the US he would most certainly be convicted of no less than 12 exceptionally grave war crimes (which he most certainly would be subject to as these are crimes which were "part of a plan or policy or as part of a large-scale commission of such crimes"):1. Willful killing, or causing great suffering or serious injury to body or health
2. Torture or inhumane treatment
3. Unlawful wanton destruction or appropriation of property
4. Depriving a prisoner of war of a fair trial
5. Unlawful deportation, confinement or transfer
6. Directing attacks against civilians
7. Killing a surrendered combatant
8. Settlement of occupied territory
9. Settlement of occupied territory
10. Summary execution
11. Pillage
12. Rape, sexual slavery, forced prostitution or forced pregnancyThere is a big difference between ruthlessly commanding people to kill men, women, children and infants out of some sick, twisted, maniachal killing spree and the measures used by the Allies during WWII to defend freedom and democracy and protect those who could not protect themselves. Did we utterly wipe out all the Germans? Did we utterly wipe out all the Japanese? And what did we do after these wars? The US rebuilt these countries and restored their land and their freedoms as well as helping to rebuild their economies.BTW I am not a big advocate of all the conflicts the US has gotten into during its history, some were avoidable through peaceful/diplomatic means in my opinion (i.e. WWI, Vietnam, etc).Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.

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For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
Dr. Carl Sagan

Nice posts, DevilsAdvocate......and Peg, if you're reading... I did not CHOOSE to be in Vietnam, or fight a war either. Although my cirucmstances were more a matter of timing than choice. (i.e. Gulf of Tonkin incident while I was in navy boot camp. "Vietnam is where, Chief?")Anyway, to get to my point. I don't think mankind can stand the though of prolonged peace. Just think of it. No Armageddon. Instead, Universal Peace breaks out and there is a tremendous world-wide party. And then it slowly dawns on people that the same saints, sinners, bravehearts and bastards that were there yesterday are still there today and will be tomorrow. God DID NOT kill the people you hate. As a matter of fact, God didn't do ANYTHING!!. And it gets worse. You have to be responsible for your own words and deeds. You have to take responsibility for your own actions. God doesn't descend from a cloud and kick the ass of the bully down the street. Or the bully in the next city, or country or religion.OH WOE, poor Humankind! What to do? What to do? Where is Dick Cheney when you need him?BTW, Peg - I'm not a biblical scholar, but I don't remember Jesus riding into Jerusalem in a Roman war chariot. I think his message had something more to do with love and peace. So, who am I to argue with the Big Kahuna?(:raig

Hi, Mespo.You've got an interesting thought.So, would you suspect that the widespread belief that God will take care of the wicked is currently preventing a lot of fundamentalists from trying to take care of the wicked themselves?Maybe, in some strange way, belief in Armageddon is having a positive effect?

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I'm Bluejay.Darwin loves you.

Most military people don't fight wars because they want to, but because they are ordered to a war zone. The military is not a democracy. Soldiers can't pick & choose whether they want to fight or not. I fought in Vietnam, not because I agreed with the war, but as a US citizen, I was obligated to fight.

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There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969

I wonder how the religious folks act in such military circumstances. Maybe you have some memories - how does it feel for a theist to hmmm, how do i say this, send someone(a Vietnamese) to heaven by a gunshot, whereby breaking the will of God and the 10 commandmants? You may choose not to answer and sorry if this brings back nasty memories.

I never encountered anyone who even thought of sending someone to heaven or breaking the the will of God. The word was survival. If I was being shot at my thinking was to survive which meant shoot back. The moral aspect never enters.

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There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969

Prophecies of such an event has been prophesied for millinia, including the prophet Daniel, centuries BC for the latter day messianic period. These prophecies all corroborate events required to happen before Armageddon.Over the centuries, ignorant wolf criers have ignored the requirements for Armageddon and have failed to discern the signs of
the times.Jesus himself, in Matthew 24, Mark 11 and Luke 21 corroborated OT prophets by specifying that Jerusalem would be occupied by Gentile nations until Gentile occupation ended and Jews returned. That prophecy had to be fulfilled before Armageddon. That prophecy of Jesus was fulfilled in the 1967 six day war when Jews replaced Gentiles in occupation of the city.But that's not all. The prophet John corroborated with OT prophets and Jesus to go into detail other specifics leading up to Armageddon; things like numbers and marks for global monetary as is emerging, drought, climate change events, fiery disastrous events, nations drawn into the Middle Eastern nations threatening Israel's right to exist, signs in the sky, etc, etc.So, Killinghurts, hang onto your hat and side with the Jesus Armageddon band wagon. It's not talk that brings on Armageddon. It's frightful things like the invention of explosives, fast travel, global government, cashless currency and all of that wonderful phenomena that brings on Armageddon as per the prophets of old, not current Armageddon jargon emerging from the mouths of Christians.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

What a concept, Buzsaw!!You mean if I have an image of Armageddon engraved on my Capital One card, I can expedite the Final Conflict? Yowzaa!(:raig

Hi Mantis, In some ways, belief in Armageddon is a double-edged sword.On the one hand, God will punish that big bully that stole my school lunch money, so I don't have to do anything.On the other hand, God will EVENTUALLY punish that big bully, but in the meantime, how much lunch money am I going to let that bully steal? Maybe I better do something about it, now.It's all about HOPE, I think. Both in a positive and negative connotation.HOWEVER (he continued...) the whole Aramageddon schtick has to be reconciled with what Jesus said in the Beatitudes. Since the Sermon on the Mount came straight from the horses's mouth (Sorry Jesus), and the Armageddon story came from John, who had been exiled for umpteen years, had a bad case of hemorrhoids and lack-o-nookie, then who are you going to believe?My money is on the guy preaching on the hill side who served fish and chips afterwards.(:raig

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Prophecies of such an event has been prophesied for millinia, including the prophet Daniel, centuries BC for the latter day messianic period. These prophecies all corroborate events required to happen before Armageddon.

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That would be the Daniel who said that the End Times would occur in the latter days of the Hellenistic kingdoms (Daniel 8:20-26).

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Jesus himself, in Matthew 24, Mark 11 and Luke 21 corroborated OT prophets by specifying that Jerusalem would be occupied by Gentile nations until Gentile occupation ended and Jews returned. That prophecy had to be fulfilled before Armageddon.

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Jesus says no such thing in Mark 11 - or Mark 13, which you probably meant. Nor does he in the parallel passages in Matthew 24.

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But that's not all. The prophet John corroborated with OT prophets and Jesus to go into detail other specifics leading up to Armageddon; things like numbers and marks for global monetary as is emerging, drought, climate change events, fiery disastrous events, nations drawn into the Middle Eastern nations threatening Israel's right to exist, signs in the sky, etc, etc.

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The Revelation doesn't predict "numbers or marks for global monetary[sic]". Most of the rest is pretty dodgy too,

I have not been in a direct one on one gunfight in a wartime situation but over a decade ago I had had my finger on the button to send several Iranian gunboats who were threatening my ship in the northern Persian Gulf to their doom. However, from my experience I don't think anyone in the military in this type of situation is thinking of whether we are sending people to heaven or hell at that frantic, adreniline-motivated moment in time. Instead we doing everything in our power to remain calm, think clearly and to try to ensure our survival in this encounter. I may be wrong but this is how I felt. Only after the fact did I flashback and think back about the more grandiose ramifications of my actions such as how many people I could have killed, if they had families, etc. BTW at the time I was a staunch Bible-thumping Christian.My honest opinion is that when your life or the life of someone you love is threatened the last thing you think about is religion or any other philosophical musings. When adrenaline kicks in your body regresses back to its animal-like primal behaviors (much like when we turn off our brain and rely totally on our primal urges and emotions i.e. sex, starvation, fear, fight or flight, etc) and we usually have to force ourselves think as rational law-abiding human beings.Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.

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For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
Dr. Carl Sagan