So whose been converted

Ok I've read a lot of these forums out of general interest, and boredom while at work for a long time now. I'm interested since joining these forums has anyone actually been converted from one belief to another? Because I've seen the same old subjects rehashed over and over ... and over. For instance a new topic has just been proposed about free will, and I know for a fact months ago I had a massive thread ongoing about this very issue. So of all the people to join have any of you:
1) Been converted
2) Converted someone
3) Actually think you have managed to drill through the barrier of someone of the opposite stance.notice I don't pick a side, this is open to both creationist and evolutionist. NO evidence for your side here! Yes I’m talking to you John You know who you areSo has anyone actually managed to convince anyone of anything!

Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

I do not that I have converted anyone on this forum, but I had a rare experience on a Danish board. It was run by Danish YEC's, but was mostly frequented by people accepting of evolution and science, and eager to debate.We argued furiously with a Biology student, who claimed to have been an "evolutionist", but that he then saw the light, and now subscribed to some kind of ID creationism.What was different about him was that we seemed to get through to him. He once made the argument that since the appendix might have a function it could not be vestigial. When explained that vestigial structures are simply homologous structures which have lost their original function, but not necessarily all function, he didn't concede his point, but he never brought it up again.This happened again and a again. He would link to Dembski's travesty of a paper on why humans do not share common descent with apes, and when i microbiologists trounced this paper, the issue of common descent was never brought up again.His statemens became increasingly more aloof and he never returned to a dud argument.Then one day he announced that he was shortly to graduate, and that his web presence would end.I would like to think that he had become more critical during the years this went on, and that his disappearance from all discussions was in part because he had been persuaded.Sadly I find that it is rare that the creationists I debate abandon an argument once they have lost the debate over it. They just wait around and bring it forth again.We have a guy in the Danish debates who is notorious for this. He makes drive by statements, and when challenged he claims he was only asking to be educated, he then concedes, and a week later He'll make the same statement again. It'll go like thisStatement:"ID is the most reasonable explanation. After all it is impossible to imagine a intermediate between sexless replication and replication with males and females."Reply:"Well hardly impossible. Some critters have cycles with sexless replication in one stage, and the differentiating out to cells with half the chromosome count, that replicates with each other, some plants can do both self fertilisation and cross, etc.. Since there exists intermediate forms now, this it can't be impossible to imagine. And besides lack of imagination is not an argument"reply:"Well, I was only asking a question, thank you for informing me."And next week he'll make the same argument, perhaps replacing sexed replication with intermediates between single celled life and multicellular, or the egg laying practices of wasps etc.Looking back, I must have debated him for at least 8 years now, and he hasn't moved an inch.Finally theres the ever present possibility that I might be just as stubborn and set in my faulty ways, but thankfully this seems to be outside the scope of this thread.

Completely OT, Kongstad, what is the name of that Danish YEC board? As a dane myself, it would be nice to know =)

two danes here, eh? Damn Kalmar Union (If you couldn't guess or didn't know already, I'm swedish)

Hi, Logic.I was a creationist up until about five years ago, when I took Biology 100 at Brigham Young University (ironically, a church-owned and church-run school). I hesitantly accepted evolution then, and spent the next year getting bad grades in my classes because I was spending a lot of time reading about evolution and about Mormon views on the subject.I got into a long, drawn-out debate with my father (via e-mail and via direct conversations), and finally convinced him to accept that evolution is at least possible. He then spoke to his father, who was very upset that I believed in evolution, and somehow managed to get him to chill out, too.However, EvC only came after I had almost completely converted away from creationism, so it didn't have as important an influence on my decision. It has, however, had a very strong influence on shaping my religious views and resolving some of the nagging questions that still remain. I owe a lot of thanks for that to people like Percy, Catholic Scientist, Rahvin, Rrhain and Bluegenes.

---

-BluejayDarwin loves you.

Aye.I started as a devout Catholic, then a devout Catholic and devout Southern Baptist (yes, strange...). Then I started thinking about things and none of it made much sense. I became mostly-agnostic before I found EvC. About 2 years before I became a member of the board, however, I read pages and pages of posts. Crashfrog, Jar, Ringo, Nosy Ned, Moose (in their non-admin modes), Percy, Rej, Ben, Phat...
it was mostly the atheists that made the most sense to me. But certain believers had excellent points as well. It certainly became very easy to see that there was a lot of knowledge I was unaware of. Over those 2 years, I moved from kinda-agnostic to firmly-agnostic. And then I started posting. During my posting I've moved from firmly-agnostic to pretty-much-an-atheist to firmly-atheist.As for converting others... it really doesn't cross my mind much. My reasons for coming to this site are mostly selfish. I come here to test thoughts and ideas of my own. I propose them, expecting them to be criticized (which is what I want), and then adjust them as necessary as better ideas become apparent to me.People "on the other side" aren't so much targets for conversion as they are valuable, possible falsifiers of my own ideas.When I have an idea, and "the other side" isn't capable of falsifying it, I gain confidence in it's validity.

TrueCreation was, I believe, 16 when he started here as a full blown young Earth creationist (YEC). His perspective changed - He (as I recall) later would refute Kent Hovand arguments presented here by other YEC's.He has gone on to doing a geology degree in college (He might be in grad school now, for all I know). His latest postings at tended to be highly muddled - Kind of like he knew creationism has no support in reality, but was still resistant to giving it up.Here are a couple of topics he started when he first registered at : Is the Global Flood Feasible? Discussion Q&A
Dating Methods Controversy DiscussionMoose

---

Professor, geology, Whatsamatta U
Evolution - Changes in the environment, caused by the interactions of the components of the environment. "Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss on your computer." - Bruce Graham

​

"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." - John Kenneth Galbraith

​

"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron." - H.L. Mencken (1880-1956)

​

"Nixon was a professional politician, and I despised everything he stood for ” but if he were running for president this year against the evil Bush-Cheney gang, I would happily vote for him." - Hunter S. Thompson

​

"I know a little about a lot of things, and a lot about a few things, but I'm highly ignorant about everything." - Moose

I was a liberal (non-literalist) Christian when I arrived at EvC.Arguing against fundamentalist Creationists was a very large part of what deconverted me from Christianity altogether. Applying the same arguemnts I used against them to myself, I realized that I had no basis for my own beliefs beyong subjective nonsense and wishful thinking.I have no idea if I've ever convinced anyone else - most of this sort of debate is done for the benefit of the lurkers who never post. The hardcore fundamentalists like Buz and ICANT wouldn't renounce their faith even if God himself came down and said "yeah, that whole Bible thing? I didn't do that." Rational arguments and rebuttals have no effect on the wall of misinformation put up by the Creationist camp when reinforced by faith. But the lurkers can be fence-sitters, impartial readers who haven't "chosen a side" and who will do so based on the arguments they see. We'll never hear from them, but that's who I'm speaking to when I've reached the point where I know my opponent will never concede regardless of any argument.

it was placed on skabelse.dk, but they shut it down with no warning a couple of years ago, I guess they were tired of hosting creationism debunking

I haven't been "converted" but some of my specific views on many philosophical issues have changed a bit from online forums. Both from reading the views presented by other people, but also from having to logically explain and defend my own view. (there can be a lot to learn in that process)I'm not out here posting online to convert people, but I am trying to both gain and spread knowledge and rationality through argumentation.

I had already accepted atheism, evolution, plate tectonics, the big bang & abiogenesis long before I joined this forum and rejected The flood, the exodus, creation, ID and young earth.Edited by bluescat48, : missing words

---

There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969

I don't think anyone has ever really understood anything I've said, or they have, and they think it's not sound. I have a need to bang my head against the wall. Perhaps masochistic?I think for sites like this, generally it's just a hobby of arguing/debating. A lot of what I hear, well, most of what I hear, hasn't got any sort of formal validity whatsoever. What we hear most is our subjective opinions.There was one fellow who has some affinity with me, Parasomnium. I don't think it was a coincidence that he was the only one who was able to NEARLY solve the riddles I created. Therefore it was refreshing to know that atleast one person understood the way I thought, and it didn't bother me that he was atheist.Hope you're still around Para'.Also, I think a lot of people here, in my experience, are very argumentative. I won't name names but some folk would disagree with you that the sky was blue, if you stated that the bible said that the sky was blue. it can be quite funny to provoke them, and watch teh tangeant you get back. But I have EVOLVED personally.I was;YEC for about 2-3 years.
Then theistic evolutionist.
Then atheist for around 5 months.
Now I am more Christian than ever I would say.Now I have erred slightly back in favour of creationism, as I have heared new compelling arguments. (Not the usuals, such as Kinds, LOL, I infact refer to seminars where they went into the details of a birds ability to fly, and how designs in critters are just too incredible to come along by themsleves. Also, abiogenesis is a complete faith position to me, which overwhelmingly favours an intelligence).

What does that prove? It is your opinion but since everyone has opinions which are literally worthless to all but that individual himself.

---

There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969

Italics added by you. Boldening added by me.Isn't this equivelant to saying that anyone who disagrees with you is too stupid or stubborn to appreciate the flawlessness of your position.....?You should convert to atheism and join in on the arrogant elitism. You've obviously got a subtle talent for it.........