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Author Topic:   Arizona: Showing America how to avoid thinking since 1912
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1471 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 271 of 397 (721332)
03-06-2014 3:46 PM
Reply to: Message 245 by Taq
03-06-2014 10:46 AM


Re: There are Christians who disagree with Faith
There is no way you are going to get me to treat homosexuality as the equivalent of race or sex.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 245 by Taq, posted 03-06-2014 10:46 AM Taq has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1471 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 272 of 397 (721333)
03-06-2014 3:47 PM
Reply to: Message 247 by NoNukes
03-06-2014 10:57 AM


Re: There are Christians who disagree with Faith
There is no way you are going to get me to treat gay marriage as the equivalent of inter-racial marriage.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 247 by NoNukes, posted 03-06-2014 10:57 AM NoNukes has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1471 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 273 of 397 (721334)
03-06-2014 3:48 PM
Reply to: Message 249 by Theodoric
03-06-2014 11:55 AM


Re: There are Christians who disagree with Faith
There is a right to act according to conscience, which in this case comes down to a right to refuse service where it would violate one's conscience.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 249 by Theodoric, posted 03-06-2014 11:55 AM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 278 by Theodoric, posted 03-06-2014 4:03 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 279 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 03-06-2014 4:05 PM Faith has replied
 Message 280 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 03-06-2014 4:09 PM Faith has replied
 Message 341 by Taq, posted 03-07-2014 2:47 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1471 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 274 of 397 (721335)
03-06-2014 3:50 PM
Reply to: Message 251 by Tangle
03-06-2014 12:32 PM


Re: There are Christians who disagree with Faith
I'd agree that giving other reasons might be the best solution. I don't know if that was an option in the cases under discussion. Sometimes it isn't. Sometimes the actual situation isn't apparent right away.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 251 by Tangle, posted 03-06-2014 12:32 PM Tangle has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1471 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 275 of 397 (721336)
03-06-2014 3:51 PM
Reply to: Message 269 by ooh-child
03-06-2014 3:44 PM


Re: There are Christians who disagree with Faith
There is no way you are going to get me to treat homosexuality as the equivalent of race.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 269 by ooh-child, posted 03-06-2014 3:44 PM ooh-child has seen this message but not replied

  
dronestar
Member
Posts: 1417
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008
Member Rating: 6.4


Message 276 of 397 (721337)
03-06-2014 3:52 PM
Reply to: Message 268 by Faith
03-06-2014 3:44 PM


Re: There are Christians who disagree with Faith
There is no way you are going to get me to treat blended textiles as the equivalent to homosexuality.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 268 by Faith, posted 03-06-2014 3:44 PM Faith has not replied

  
DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 3127 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


(3)
Message 277 of 397 (721338)
03-06-2014 3:58 PM
Reply to: Message 258 by Faith
03-06-2014 3:12 PM


Re: Most Christians disagree with Faith
The denominations you name are of course the very ones I would not consider to be Christian as they've all gone liberal and rejected Biblical inerrancy (except for the RCC which never was Christian). There are still some true Bible based Presbyterians but all the rest are apostate. The Southern Baptists are a motley lot these days, we'll see where they end up.
So it will just be you and a few select of your friends in heaven. Got it. Now I understand you better "Faith".
You are dangerously crossing the line on what Jesus spoke out against: the unloving, self-righteous judgeamental, legalistic, condescending, hypocritical behavior of religious but not Godly Pharasees.
Here is a good article to read on this.
Pharisees are often "hyper-seperationists" in their attitude toward others.
Since Pharisees believe they are "God's true people," they feel they must separate from all others who don't follow their "truth." True, Christians are to separate from the world, ungodliness, obvious heresy, and carnal believers, but these "sects" essentially refuse fellowship from all other believers simply because they don't go to their "type" of Fundamentalist church, keep their subjective "rules" and "laws," or idolize their favorite preachers.
A few years ago your author and his family began attending a church that he suspected was overly separative and legalistic and soon his suspicions were proved true. The pastor would routinely ridicule other Fundamentalists "without the camp" as if they were second or third class Christians (if Christians at all). He constantly tried to force his "convictions" on his people about movies, television, even radio, dress, and other things (which we concede can be used for evil, but the devices themselves are not evil) and strongly implied if others didn't live like he (claims) to live they couldn't be in God's will and God won't use them. He devoutly followed the camp meeting crowd out of Resaca, Georgia and barely tolerated the mention of any preacher or church that was not in this "clique."
The pastor apparently sensed we were not easily manipulated and we held no undue esteem for his favorite preachers or "crowd" and he appeared to only tolerate our presence. He made no attempt to visit us and inquire as to our intentions, he never talked to us about joining his church, and never checked on us when we missed a service. He finally did visit us (a couple months later) after we shamed him into it by saying we have been expecting him to come over, but he would not talk of anything of substance.
I gave him a copy of my book on marriage and divorce (From Marriage To Remarriage), fully knowing he believed differently about it, and sincerely asked him to write a paper detailing from Scripture what was unscriptural about it. He said he would but evidently didn't think it was worth his time because he never responded or proved my "errors." If I am so wrong why doesn't he show me my errors, especially after I asked him? This behavior gave me the impression that he thinks his (and his crowd's) position is not to be questioned; he is right, that's what he was taught, and that's that. Actually I think he read the book but couldn't "Scripturally" refute it. He had his "arguments" against it but no scripture, and he knew I required Scripture. These people are so "holy" and separated that they have in some ways separated themselves from God and the Bible!
John 8:4-8 writes:
They said to him, Teacher, this woman has been caught in the act of adultery. Now in the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. So what do you say? This they said to test him, that they might have some charge to bring against him. Jesus bent down and wrote with his finger on the ground. And as they continued to ask him, he stood up and said to them, Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her. And once more he bent down and wrote on the ground.
I Corinthians 13:1 writes:
If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.

"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World
"In coming to understand anything we are rejecting the facts as they are for us in favour of the facts as they are. - C.S. Lewis, An Experiment in Criticism

This message is a reply to:
 Message 258 by Faith, posted 03-06-2014 3:12 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 293 by Faith, posted 03-06-2014 5:16 PM DevilsAdvocate has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9197
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 278 of 397 (721339)
03-06-2014 4:03 PM
Reply to: Message 273 by Faith
03-06-2014 3:48 PM


Re: There are Christians who disagree with Faith
There is a right to act according to conscience
Show me where this "right" is codified. What document is the "right" in?

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 273 by Faith, posted 03-06-2014 3:48 PM Faith has not replied

  
DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 3127 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


Message 279 of 397 (721340)
03-06-2014 4:05 PM
Reply to: Message 273 by Faith
03-06-2014 3:48 PM


Re: There are Christians who disagree with Faith
There is a right to act according to conscience, which in this case comes down to a right to refuse service where it would violate one's conscience.
And they still can do that. But they can't hide behind the law to discriminate. That is the bottom line.
There is no such thing as a right to refuse service aka discriminate.
How about discriminating against Hindu weddings, Muslims, avowed atheists (I am sure you disagree with there beliefs or lack thereof), Mormons, non-Christians, people who have pre-marital sex, people who dance at there weddings (some indepedent Baptists frown at that), etc, etc. What makes this any different than the above?
What is the difference?

"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World
"In coming to understand anything we are rejecting the facts as they are for us in favour of the facts as they are. - C.S. Lewis, An Experiment in Criticism

This message is a reply to:
 Message 273 by Faith, posted 03-06-2014 3:48 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 282 by Faith, posted 03-06-2014 4:13 PM DevilsAdvocate has not replied

  
DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 3127 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


Message 280 of 397 (721341)
03-06-2014 4:09 PM
Reply to: Message 273 by Faith
03-06-2014 3:48 PM


Re: There are Christians who disagree with Faith
There is a right to act according to conscience, which in this case comes down to a right to refuse service where it would violate one's conscience.
Sorry you are way off base on this Faith. Jim Jones was acting according to his conscience as well when he led people to their suicidal deaths (or if we want to break the Godwin Law, Hitler). . In fact all of humanity act according to there conscience, warped or not.

"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World
"In coming to understand anything we are rejecting the facts as they are for us in favour of the facts as they are. - C.S. Lewis, An Experiment in Criticism

This message is a reply to:
 Message 273 by Faith, posted 03-06-2014 3:48 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 281 by Faith, posted 03-06-2014 4:12 PM DevilsAdvocate has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1471 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 281 of 397 (721342)
03-06-2014 4:12 PM
Reply to: Message 280 by DevilsAdvocate
03-06-2014 4:09 PM


Re: There are Christians who disagree with Faith
That's absurd. There is no case for Jim Jones acting on conscience.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 280 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 03-06-2014 4:09 PM DevilsAdvocate has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 283 by dronestar, posted 03-06-2014 4:15 PM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1471 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 282 of 397 (721343)
03-06-2014 4:13 PM
Reply to: Message 279 by DevilsAdvocate
03-06-2014 4:05 PM


Re: There are Christians who disagree with Faith
Can I discriminate against felons? Pedophiles? Would you object if I refused to cater a Nazi celebration, or discriminated against a skinhead rally?
If the argument is that you might make a person feel oppressed, would you care in these cases?
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 279 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 03-06-2014 4:05 PM DevilsAdvocate has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 284 by vimesey, posted 03-06-2014 4:19 PM Faith has replied

  
dronestar
Member
Posts: 1417
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008
Member Rating: 6.4


Message 283 of 397 (721344)
03-06-2014 4:15 PM
Reply to: Message 281 by Faith
03-06-2014 4:12 PM


Re: There are Christians who disagree with Faith
Give me liberty or give me MONOfilament thread!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 281 by Faith, posted 03-06-2014 4:12 PM Faith has not replied

  
vimesey
Member (Idle past 99 days)
Posts: 1398
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011


(3)
Message 284 of 397 (721345)
03-06-2014 4:19 PM
Reply to: Message 282 by Faith
03-06-2014 4:13 PM


Re: There are Christians who disagree with Faith
Can I discriminate against felons? Pedophiles?
And here we have it - conflating homosexuality with crime and paedophilia.
Was that deliberate, or just spectacularly ignorant ?

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 282 by Faith, posted 03-06-2014 4:13 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 285 by Faith, posted 03-06-2014 4:32 PM vimesey has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1471 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 285 of 397 (721346)
03-06-2014 4:32 PM
Reply to: Message 284 by vimesey
03-06-2014 4:19 PM


Re: There are Christians who disagree with Faith
I'm sorry, there is no middle category. Homosexuality is not to be classed with race or sex, and the only thing it can be classed with is another unnatural sexual inclination. Or criminality, which is how it used to be classed. It ought to be enough that it is no longer treated as criminal, but there is no way it should be treated as normal.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 284 by vimesey, posted 03-06-2014 4:19 PM vimesey has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 286 by dronestar, posted 03-06-2014 4:41 PM Faith has replied
 Message 290 by Tangle, posted 03-06-2014 4:52 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 292 by dronestar, posted 03-06-2014 4:56 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 294 by frako, posted 03-06-2014 6:00 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 297 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-06-2014 8:34 PM Faith has not replied

  
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