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Author Topic:   Innocence Riots
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 16 of 256 (673460)
09-19-2012 2:50 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by Straggler
09-19-2012 1:29 PM


Re: "The only surprise is there aren't more violent protests in the Middle East"
The West has been picking sides and selling weapons to it's preferred puppets for decades. Our oil companies have been exploiting Middle East oil resources for decades too. Western interference has a long and undignified record in the Middle East that dates back long before 9/11.
And that justifies murder, how?
I think you risk infantilizing the Muslims of the world when you say "oh, they can't help but storm our embassies and kill, after the shit we've done to them." No, they can help it.
Western interference has a long and undignified record in the Middle East that dates back long before 9/11.
Sure. But it has a long and undignified record in Europe and Asia, as well. But it wasn't the Russians who killed thousands on 9/11. It's not the Germans now storming our embassies to kill in the name of their God. For whatever reason, the usual dirty-but-necessary statecraft that every nation, including those of the Muslim world, is engaged in only "blows back" from Muslims in the middle east.
Because it isn't, in fact, blowback at all. It's the result of decades of Muslim-world leaders fomenting anti-Americanism.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by Straggler, posted 09-19-2012 1:29 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by dronestar, posted 09-19-2012 3:28 PM crashfrog has replied
 Message 38 by Straggler, posted 09-19-2012 6:42 PM crashfrog has not replied

  
dronestar
Member
Posts: 1407
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008


Message 17 of 256 (673473)
09-19-2012 3:28 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by crashfrog
09-19-2012 2:50 PM


"There's a campaign of hatred against us in the Middle East . . ."
Crash writes:
It's the result of decades of Muslim-world leaders fomenting anti-Americanism.
It appears the US government knows exactly why that is:
quote:
from a declassified Eisenhower Administration memo:
President Eisenhower, in an internal discussion, observed to his staff, and I'm quoting now, "There's a campaign of hatred against us in the Middle East, not by governments, but by the people." The National Security Council discussed that question and said, "Yes, and the reason is, there's a perception in that region that the United States supports status quo governments, which prevent democracy and development and that we do it because of our interests in Middle East oil. Furthermore, it's difficult to counter that perception because it's correct."[59]
Bernard Lewis - Wikipedia
Edited by dronester, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by crashfrog, posted 09-19-2012 2:50 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by crashfrog, posted 09-19-2012 3:35 PM dronestar has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 18 of 256 (673476)
09-19-2012 3:35 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by dronestar
09-19-2012 3:28 PM


Re: "There's a campaign of hatred against us in the Middle East . . ."
So if we stopped, would they believe us? If it really goes back that far?
If we retreated in every respect from involvement in the Middle East, wouldn't they just see that as the next level of deception? If they're already prepared to blame us for using our earthquake machine on Turkey and Pakistan, why would they believe us if we left?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by dronestar, posted 09-19-2012 3:28 PM dronestar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by dronestar, posted 09-19-2012 3:56 PM crashfrog has not replied

  
dronestar
Member
Posts: 1407
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008


Message 19 of 256 (673478)
09-19-2012 3:56 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by crashfrog
09-19-2012 3:35 PM


Re: "There's a campaign of hatred against us in the Middle East . . ."
Crash writes:
If it really goes back that far?
"If"?
Crash writes:
If we retreated in every respect from involvement in the Middle East, wouldn't they just see that as the next level of deception?
America shouldn't stop targeting their children with drone missiles and stop supporting dictatorships that oppress their lives for oil profits only because they might consider it the next level of deception. Rather, america should stop targeting their children with drone missiles and stop dictatorships that oppress their lives for oil profits because it is the moral thing to do.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by crashfrog, posted 09-19-2012 3:35 PM crashfrog has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by jar, posted 09-19-2012 4:00 PM dronestar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 20 of 256 (673479)
09-19-2012 4:00 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by dronestar
09-19-2012 3:56 PM


Re: "There's a campaign of hatred against us in the Middle East . . ."
Do you have any evidence that the US targeted children for drone attacks or is this simply more of your unsupported assertions?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by dronestar, posted 09-19-2012 3:56 PM dronestar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by dronestar, posted 09-19-2012 4:09 PM jar has replied
 Message 22 by New Cat's Eye, posted 09-19-2012 4:09 PM jar has seen this message but not replied

  
dronestar
Member
Posts: 1407
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008


(2)
Message 21 of 256 (673481)
09-19-2012 4:09 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by jar
09-19-2012 4:00 PM


Re: "There's a campaign of hatred against us in the Middle East . . ."
Jar writes:
Do you have any evidence that the US targeted children for drone attacks or is this simply more of your unsupported assertions?
If you were the parent of a dead child killed from a drone attack, which would be vastly more comforting to you?:
1. Your dead child was targeted.
2. Your dead child was accidentally killed along with hundreds of other children in hundreds of other previous drone attacks?
Or how about:
If I "accidentally" became drunk, then killed one child every day for ten years, then killed your child, would you still accept my apologies for "accidentally" killing your child? If no, why not?
Edited by dronester, : added "?"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by jar, posted 09-19-2012 4:00 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by Dr Jack, posted 09-19-2012 4:20 PM dronestar has not replied
 Message 25 by jar, posted 09-19-2012 4:23 PM dronestar has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 22 of 256 (673482)
09-19-2012 4:09 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by jar
09-19-2012 4:00 PM


Re: "There's a campaign of hatred against us in the Middle East . . ."
He's probably just joking and forgot the smiley again.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by jar, posted 09-19-2012 4:00 PM jar has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by dronestar, posted 09-19-2012 4:13 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
dronestar
Member
Posts: 1407
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008


Message 23 of 256 (673483)
09-19-2012 4:13 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by New Cat's Eye
09-19-2012 4:09 PM


Re: "There's a campaign of hatred against us in the Middle East . . ."
It's seems to be a common forum hazard.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by New Cat's Eye, posted 09-19-2012 4:09 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by New Cat's Eye, posted 09-19-2012 4:23 PM dronestar has replied

  
Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.7


(1)
Message 24 of 256 (673484)
09-19-2012 4:20 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by dronestar
09-19-2012 4:09 PM


Re: "There's a campaign of hatred against us in the Middle East . . ."
Brilliantly put.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by dronestar, posted 09-19-2012 4:09 PM dronestar has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 25 of 256 (673485)
09-19-2012 4:23 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by dronestar
09-19-2012 4:09 PM


Re: "There's a campaign of hatred against us in the Middle East . . ."
So once again you have no evidence and are just making shit up?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by dronestar, posted 09-19-2012 4:09 PM dronestar has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by Straggler, posted 09-19-2012 7:14 PM jar has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 26 of 256 (673486)
09-19-2012 4:23 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by dronestar
09-19-2012 4:13 PM


Re: "There's a campaign of hatred against us in the Middle East . . ."
Mostly its just you.
The US does not target children with drone strikes and its lying when you hyperbolically spin it that way.
And since you're such a fan of disgusting photos:

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by dronestar, posted 09-19-2012 4:13 PM dronestar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by Dr Jack, posted 09-19-2012 4:30 PM New Cat's Eye has replied
 Message 28 by dronestar, posted 09-19-2012 4:31 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.7


(3)
Message 27 of 256 (673487)
09-19-2012 4:30 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by New Cat's Eye
09-19-2012 4:23 PM


Re: "There's a campaign of hatred against us in the Middle East . . ."
The US does not target children with drone strikes and its lying when you hyperbolically spin it that way.
The US is entirely happy to continue with drone (and other) attacks in the full knowledge that they repeatedly kill innocent people, including children.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by New Cat's Eye, posted 09-19-2012 4:23 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by New Cat's Eye, posted 09-19-2012 4:39 PM Dr Jack has not replied

  
dronestar
Member
Posts: 1407
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008


(1)
Message 28 of 256 (673488)
09-19-2012 4:31 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by New Cat's Eye
09-19-2012 4:23 PM


Re: "There's a campaign of hatred against us in the Middle East . . ."
First take the beam out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly how to remove the splinter from your brother's eye.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by New Cat's Eye, posted 09-19-2012 4:23 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by New Cat's Eye, posted 09-19-2012 4:40 PM dronestar has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22391
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


(1)
Message 29 of 256 (673490)
09-19-2012 4:34 PM


I don't understand...
...the reluctance to deal with the reality of collateral damage. "Surgical strike" is nearly a contradiction in terms.
--Percy

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by jar, posted 09-19-2012 4:44 PM Percy has replied
 Message 41 by crashfrog, posted 09-19-2012 7:38 PM Percy has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 30 of 256 (673493)
09-19-2012 4:39 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by Dr Jack
09-19-2012 4:30 PM


Re: "There's a campaign of hatred against us in the Middle East . . ."
The US does not target children with drone strikes and its lying when you hyperbolically spin it that way.
The US is entirely happy to continue with drone (and other) attacks in the full knowledge that they repeatedly kill innocent people, including children.
Yeah, so?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by Dr Jack, posted 09-19-2012 4:30 PM Dr Jack has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by Percy, posted 09-19-2012 4:46 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
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