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EvC Forum Side Orders Coffee House Occupy Wall Street

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Author Topic:   Occupy Wall Street
DC85
Member (Idle past 379 days)
Posts: 876
From: Richmond, Virginia USA
Joined: 05-06-2003


(1)
Message 391 of 602 (639319)
10-30-2011 12:10 PM
Reply to: Message 348 by Buzsaw
10-27-2011 6:54 PM


Re: OPD Crowd Control Policy
Given the radical left wing liberal atmosphere in Oakland, it must have been bad for the police and town fathers to stop the destruction violence and rebellion against law authorities. .Had it been in Iowa or Montana etc, one might expect the police to react.
Sorry to say I want you to prove this point. All evidence I've seen points to unjust force on the part of the Oakland PD.
I'm sorry if you're twisted around by the falsehoods spouted by Bill O'Riley but beyond his , Hanity's mouth or a blog do you have a source?
destruction violence and rebellion against law authorities.
law authorities the tea party was often touting armed rebellion against. A Government the tea party was often touting armed rebellion against.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 348 by Buzsaw, posted 10-27-2011 6:54 PM Buzsaw has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 392 by Panda, posted 10-30-2011 12:19 PM DC85 has not replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3712 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 392 of 602 (639321)
10-30-2011 12:19 PM
Reply to: Message 391 by DC85
10-30-2011 12:10 PM


Re: OPD Crowd Control Policy
DC85 writes:
Sorry to say I want you to prove this point. All evidence I've seen points to unjust force on the part of the Oakland PD.
Buzsaw doesn't do evidence.
But he will keep repeating the same unevidenced claims if you ask him to.

If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue

This message is a reply to:
 Message 391 by DC85, posted 10-30-2011 12:10 PM DC85 has not replied

  
Dogmafood
Member (Idle past 348 days)
Posts: 1815
From: Ontario Canada
Joined: 08-04-2010


Message 393 of 602 (639323)
10-30-2011 12:24 PM
Reply to: Message 390 by jar
10-30-2011 12:09 PM


Re: income inequality
Yeah, I mean, don't you see these same inabilities and faults present in our current gov'ts?
My point is that we don't eliminate these faults by allowing only a few of us to make decisions and in fact enable the influence of personal interests over those of the many.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 390 by jar, posted 10-30-2011 12:09 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 394 by jar, posted 10-30-2011 12:38 PM Dogmafood has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 394 of 602 (639326)
10-30-2011 12:38 PM
Reply to: Message 393 by Dogmafood
10-30-2011 12:24 PM


Re: income inequality
But what you see in the elected officials simply mirrors the electorate.
As I have said several times, any change will take decades.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 393 by Dogmafood, posted 10-30-2011 12:24 PM Dogmafood has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 396 by Dogmafood, posted 10-30-2011 12:56 PM jar has replied

  
DC85
Member (Idle past 379 days)
Posts: 876
From: Richmond, Virginia USA
Joined: 05-06-2003


(1)
Message 395 of 602 (639327)
10-30-2011 12:42 PM
Reply to: Message 114 by Buzsaw
10-11-2011 11:09 AM


We don't need Wall Street
the free enterprise system, including the corporations of it could not exist. Wall Street is the source of their funding.
Without Wall Street you would have no trucking, food, technology, construction, etc corporations in this free nation, which has been the most free and blessed on the planet.
Of course this isn't true. YES in modern times we have become dependent of publicly traded companies but to say they are the backbone and the only way the system can work is a joke.
Private Corporations exist and do well such as "The C.F. Sauer Company" here in Richmond. They produce Duke’s Mayonnaise and many other products .
Menards a competitor to Home Depot is also a private corporation.
We don't need Wall Street for business to exist
Edited by DC85, : No reason given.
Edited by DC85, : Typo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 114 by Buzsaw, posted 10-11-2011 11:09 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Dogmafood
Member (Idle past 348 days)
Posts: 1815
From: Ontario Canada
Joined: 08-04-2010


Message 396 of 602 (639329)
10-30-2011 12:56 PM
Reply to: Message 394 by jar
10-30-2011 12:38 PM


Re: income inequality
But what you see in the elected officials simply mirrors the electorate.
Yes except with the distortion of personal interest. Why use a distorted reflection when we have the real thing? All of this unrest is a result of the distortion.
In the past, and probably now, the problem with a real democracy is one of mechanics and logistics. I think that we are approaching levels of technology, in some countries, to actually attempt it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 394 by jar, posted 10-30-2011 12:38 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 397 by jar, posted 10-30-2011 1:10 PM Dogmafood has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 397 of 602 (639331)
10-30-2011 1:10 PM
Reply to: Message 396 by Dogmafood
10-30-2011 12:56 PM


Re: income inequality
No, the problem with real democracy is ignorant voters.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 396 by Dogmafood, posted 10-30-2011 12:56 PM Dogmafood has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 398 by Dogmafood, posted 10-30-2011 1:19 PM jar has replied

  
Dogmafood
Member (Idle past 348 days)
Posts: 1815
From: Ontario Canada
Joined: 08-04-2010


Message 398 of 602 (639332)
10-30-2011 1:19 PM
Reply to: Message 397 by jar
10-30-2011 1:10 PM


Re: income inequality
No, the problem with real democracy is ignorant voters.
OK but that is a problem with humanity before it is with democracy.
I would bet that a real and direct democracy would work at least as well as if not vastly better than what we have.
Edited by Dogmafood, : subvert the censors

This message is a reply to:
 Message 397 by jar, posted 10-30-2011 1:10 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 399 by jar, posted 10-30-2011 1:27 PM Dogmafood has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 399 of 602 (639333)
10-30-2011 1:27 PM
Reply to: Message 398 by Dogmafood
10-30-2011 1:19 PM


Re: income inequality
You are free to bet most anything but history shows that no true democracy has ever worked in any group larger than tribal size.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 398 by Dogmafood, posted 10-30-2011 1:19 PM Dogmafood has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 400 by crashfrog, posted 10-30-2011 1:40 PM jar has replied
 Message 405 by Dogmafood, posted 10-30-2011 2:54 PM jar has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 400 of 602 (639335)
10-30-2011 1:40 PM
Reply to: Message 399 by jar
10-30-2011 1:27 PM


Re: income inequality
You are free to bet most anything but history shows that no true democracy has ever worked in any group larger than tribal size.
For that matter, no presidential democracy has ever succeeded for longer than 40 years, with one exception. Parlimentary systems appear to be stable form of democratic republics. (I think we're largely seeing the end of the American political system as a workable means of governance. I don't think America is doomed but we're going to have to radically revamp the Constitution to survive as a nation.)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 399 by jar, posted 10-30-2011 1:27 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 401 by DC85, posted 10-30-2011 2:08 PM crashfrog has replied
 Message 403 by jar, posted 10-30-2011 2:29 PM crashfrog has not replied

  
DC85
Member (Idle past 379 days)
Posts: 876
From: Richmond, Virginia USA
Joined: 05-06-2003


Message 401 of 602 (639337)
10-30-2011 2:08 PM
Reply to: Message 400 by crashfrog
10-30-2011 1:40 PM


Parlimentary system
Parlimentary systems appear to be stable form of democratic republics. (I think we're largely seeing the end of the American political system as a workable means of governance. I don't think America is doomed but we're going to have to radically revamp the Constitution to survive as a nation.)
The problem indeed with the American system is that the checks leave too many openings for obstruction. I'm not however convinced that a parliamentary system is the Answer.
I like the idea that the majority vote a ruling isn't always law. I must admit though it's gotten out of hand
Edited by DC85, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 400 by crashfrog, posted 10-30-2011 1:40 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 402 by crashfrog, posted 10-30-2011 2:18 PM DC85 has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 402 of 602 (639340)
10-30-2011 2:18 PM
Reply to: Message 401 by DC85
10-30-2011 2:08 PM


Re: Parlimentary system
I'm not however convinced that a parliamentary system is the Answer.
I'm not only convinced that we should have a parliamentary system, but that we should separate the roles of Head of State and Head of Government, which under our system are wrapped up in the same person (the President.)
It's actually a very effective tool for comity in a legislative body for people of the minority party to say "fucking Christ I hate the guy in charge, but by God we both love our Queen." I think having them be the same person gives slightly too large an incentive to the minority party to be seditious.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 401 by DC85, posted 10-30-2011 2:08 PM DC85 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 404 by DC85, posted 10-30-2011 2:38 PM crashfrog has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 403 of 602 (639341)
10-30-2011 2:29 PM
Reply to: Message 400 by crashfrog
10-30-2011 1:40 PM


Re: income inequality
Well, there are two methods in place to modify the Constitution, by Amendment and by a call for a new Constitutional Convention. Unfortunately the latter is quicker and leaves the scope and pace of the reforms wide open and potentially sweeping.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 400 by crashfrog, posted 10-30-2011 1:40 PM crashfrog has not replied

  
DC85
Member (Idle past 379 days)
Posts: 876
From: Richmond, Virginia USA
Joined: 05-06-2003


Message 404 of 602 (639343)
10-30-2011 2:38 PM
Reply to: Message 402 by crashfrog
10-30-2011 2:18 PM


Re: Parlimentary system
You don't think reforms to the chambers and systems themselves would be better?
I have reservations about giving too much power in a single direction

This message is a reply to:
 Message 402 by crashfrog, posted 10-30-2011 2:18 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 406 by crashfrog, posted 10-30-2011 3:00 PM DC85 has not replied

  
Dogmafood
Member (Idle past 348 days)
Posts: 1815
From: Ontario Canada
Joined: 08-04-2010


Message 405 of 602 (639345)
10-30-2011 2:54 PM
Reply to: Message 399 by jar
10-30-2011 1:27 PM


Re: income inequality
So, you do not actually believe that everyone deserves a say in their government. Are you saying that I can only have an opinion if it is the right one? What is the difference between an opinion and a vote?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 399 by jar, posted 10-30-2011 1:27 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 418 by jar, posted 10-31-2011 10:53 AM Dogmafood has replied

  
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