Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
2 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,817 Year: 3,074/9,624 Month: 919/1,588 Week: 102/223 Day: 0/13 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Definitions of Liberal and Conservative
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1 of 46 (613938)
04-29-2011 12:12 PM


I hear these terms tossed around loosely these days. This led to me starting this topic, in order to ask everyone to come to a consensus and define what a liberal is and what a conservative is.
It has been my understanding that conservatives are for smaller government, free enterprise and a free market economy.
Liberals tend to believe in social welfare, a larger government that cares for all of the people rather than simply the businessmen, and addressing the concerns of the needy.
Can anyone help clarify, correct, and add to my positions?

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by ringo, posted 04-29-2011 2:12 PM Phat has replied
 Message 24 by Dogmafood, posted 04-29-2011 4:06 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 25 by subbie, posted 04-29-2011 4:15 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 28 by ZenMonkey, posted 04-29-2011 7:01 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Tram law
Member (Idle past 4705 days)
Posts: 283
From: Weed, California, USA
Joined: 08-15-2010


Message 2 of 46 (613939)
04-29-2011 12:22 PM


A liberal is someone who constantly berates conservatives, especially Sarah Palin, and constantly berating Fox News and Glen Beck without berating CNN for doing the same things. They also want big daddy government run people's lives,
A conservative is somebody who wants America to be ruled by the Corporation and wants all citizens to be enslaved to the corporation.
Neither party cares about rights and individuality.
Neither party cares about the little guys any more.
No, I am not being facetious or sarcastic in any way. These are my own personal beliefs.

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Theodoric, posted 04-29-2011 12:40 PM Tram law has not replied
 Message 7 by crashfrog, posted 04-29-2011 1:31 PM Tram law has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


(1)
Message 3 of 46 (613940)
04-29-2011 12:40 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by Tram law
04-29-2011 12:22 PM


derailed on the 2nd post
I don't think Phat was looking for you to spout on about your personal beliefs and let us know about your personal axe to ground.
To address the topic.
I do not think there are simple definitions for liberal and conservative. We have had a couple threads about the political spectrum already. What we learned from those threads is that people can not be easily pigeonholed into conservative or liberal.
Now if you want to discuss what the current crops of "conservatives" and "liberals" stand for we could have an interesting conversation. But I do not think you will ever get clear definitions that there will be a general consensus on.
Notice how I replied to your post and not a general reply. If you had replied to the OP, Phat would have gotten an email letting him know there was a reply. Ever notice how on the bottom of posts there is a line that says what post the current post is a reply to and another line that shows if the post has been replied to. Maybe you do not think it is important to you, but a lot of us use those tools. Percy has built a great site with great tools. It would courteous to all users of this site if you would stop using the general reply button when you are replying to a specific post.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by Tram law, posted 04-29-2011 12:22 PM Tram law has not replied

  
Tram law
Member (Idle past 4705 days)
Posts: 283
From: Weed, California, USA
Joined: 08-15-2010


Message 4 of 46 (613941)
04-29-2011 1:13 PM


Theo, shut up. Not every single reply needs to be replied to with with a quote button. Stop making this an issue. If I have to I will take it to the moderators if you do not stop harassing me over this issue. And yes, I did not use it on purpose this time.
You've already stated your point. I do not agree to your point. It's time to drop it.
Because you are the one who's making a big deal out of this, and if you complain about this in every single post I do this, you will be derailing a lot of posts that I participate in.
And I repeat, not every single response I make needs to have been replied to with a quote button.
This is going beyond common courtesy, and I will not bow down to you.
So just drop it.
Edited by Tram law, : spelling
Edited by Tram law, : No reason given.

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by Rahvin, posted 04-29-2011 1:24 PM Tram law has not replied
 Message 6 by Theodoric, posted 04-29-2011 1:25 PM Tram law has replied

  
Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4032
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 9.2


Message 5 of 46 (613943)
04-29-2011 1:24 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Tram law
04-29-2011 1:13 PM


It's not the quote button, genius, it's the reply button. It lets the person you reply to know that you've replied to them via email, just like Theo said. You'll note that Theo didn't use any quote button either, demonstrated by the lack of actual quote tags in his reply to you.
Is there a reason you don't want the person you're replying to to be notified of the reply? I mean, the "reply" button is right below the post you're reading and presumably responding to, you can;t get any easier than that, so you must have a specific reason for not using it, and I cannot fathom why.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Tram law, posted 04-29-2011 1:13 PM Tram law has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 6 of 46 (613944)
04-29-2011 1:25 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Tram law
04-29-2011 1:13 PM


Topic?
I am not asking you to reply with the quote button. I am asking you to reply with the reply button, not the general reply button.
But since you have decided to be different and not be courteous to other members of this board I will let it go.
Now do you have anything to see that actually addresses the topic?
Do you agree or disagree that a simple definition of liberal and conservative is not possible?

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Tram law, posted 04-29-2011 1:13 PM Tram law has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by Tram law, posted 04-29-2011 1:39 PM Theodoric has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 7 of 46 (613945)
04-29-2011 1:31 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by Tram law
04-29-2011 12:22 PM


Neither party cares about rights and individuality.
Neither party cares about the little guys any more.
No, I am not being facetious or sarcastic in any way. These are my own personal beliefs.
"Pox on both their houses" political cynicism is cute in 20-year-olds, but it's not supportable by anyone who actually pays attention to politics. There are actually legitimate differences between the parties - differences that, yes, do actually matter to "the little guys." Of course, most of what affects "the little guy" is a function of precisely the local politics you probably have never paid any attention to. Quick, without looking it up - who's the municipal comptroller for Weed, CA?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by Tram law, posted 04-29-2011 12:22 PM Tram law has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by Tram law, posted 04-29-2011 1:34 PM crashfrog has replied

  
Tram law
Member (Idle past 4705 days)
Posts: 283
From: Weed, California, USA
Joined: 08-15-2010


Message 8 of 46 (613946)
04-29-2011 1:34 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by crashfrog
04-29-2011 1:31 PM


crashfrog writes:
Neither party cares about rights and individuality.
Neither party cares about the little guys any more.
No, I am not being facetious or sarcastic in any way. These are my own personal beliefs.
"Pox on both their houses" political cynicism is cute in 20-year-olds, but it's not supportable by anyone who actually pays attention to politics. There are actually legitimate differences between the parties - differences that, yes, do actually matter to "the little guys." Of course, most of what affects "the little guy" is a function of precisely the local politics you probably have never paid any attention to. Quick, without looking it up - who's the municipal comptroller for Weed, CA?
Actually I don't know that. I've never paid much to my town's politics.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by crashfrog, posted 04-29-2011 1:31 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by Theodoric, posted 04-29-2011 1:37 PM Tram law has not replied
 Message 11 by crashfrog, posted 04-29-2011 1:41 PM Tram law has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 9 of 46 (613948)
04-29-2011 1:37 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Tram law
04-29-2011 1:34 PM


Tram law writes:
crashfrog writes:
Neither party cares about rights and individuality.
Neither party cares about the little guys any more.
No, I am not being facetious or sarcastic in any way. These are my own personal beliefs.
"Pox on both their houses" political cynicism is cute in 20-year-olds, but it's not supportable by anyone who actually pays attention to politics. There are actually legitimate differences between the parties - differences that, yes, do actually matter to "the little guys." Of course, most of what affects "the little guy" is a function of precisely the local politics you probably have never paid any attention to. Quick, without looking it up - who's the municipal comptroller for Weed, CA?
Actually I don't know that. I've never paid much to my town's politics.
Do you understand the point froggie is trying to make.
I used the rquote button on that reply. Quite a difference don't you think?

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Tram law, posted 04-29-2011 1:34 PM Tram law has not replied

  
Tram law
Member (Idle past 4705 days)
Posts: 283
From: Weed, California, USA
Joined: 08-15-2010


Message 10 of 46 (613949)
04-29-2011 1:39 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Theodoric
04-29-2011 1:25 PM


Re: Topic?
Theodoric writes:
I am not asking you to reply with the quote button. I am asking you to reply with the reply button, not the general reply button.
But since you have decided to be different and not be courteous to other members of this board I will let it go.
Now do you have anything to see that actually addresses the topic?
Do you agree or disagree that a simple definition of liberal and conservative is not possible?
No, you're not asking, you're demanding and doing everything you can to brow beat me into submission. And you're getting all upset over this and keep on harping on it when I said I don't agree with you.
You are the one who's creating this problem and who are continuing it it, not me, and in doing so you are derailing threads.
Stop making this an issue. It is not an issue.
And I don't have to agree to it. If I absolutely have to agree to it then it it is not a matter of common courtesy and is instead a hard rule.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Theodoric, posted 04-29-2011 1:25 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by Theodoric, posted 04-29-2011 1:44 PM Tram law has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 11 of 46 (613950)
04-29-2011 1:41 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Tram law
04-29-2011 1:34 PM


I've never paid much to my town's politics.
Kind of my point. Like most people you've committed a fundamental attribution error about the effect of politics on your own life. Like all those people who complain about "Barack Obama's bank bailout."
I guarantee you, though, that issues of zoning, finance, and other local political issues matter far more to the state of your community than the actions of anybody in Washington. Especially in CA. But, like most people, you've ceded control of those political entities to highly-motivated business concerns and retired elderly. Do you think they have your interests at heart?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Tram law, posted 04-29-2011 1:34 PM Tram law has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by Tram law, posted 04-29-2011 1:45 PM crashfrog has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 12 of 46 (613951)
04-29-2011 1:44 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Tram law
04-29-2011 1:39 PM


Re: Topic?
Tram law writes:
Theodoric writes:
I am not asking you to reply with the quote button. I am asking you to reply with the reply button, not the general reply button.
But since you have decided to be different and not be courteous to other members of this board I will let it go.
Now do you have anything to see that actually addresses the topic?
Do you agree or disagree that a simple definition of liberal and conservative is not possible?
No, you're not asking, you're demanding and doing everything you can to brow beat me into submission. And you're getting all upset over this and keep on harping on it when I said I don't agree with you.
You are the one who's creating this problem and who are continuing it it, not me, and in doing so you are derailing threads.
Stop making this an issue. It is not an issue.
And I don't have to agree to it. If I absolutely have to agree to it then it it is not a matter of common courtesy and is instead a hard rule.
Ok so we agree that it is a common courtesy issue, but you evidently don't feel you want to be courteous to other people on this board. Nice thing to know about you.
Now again I ask, do you have anything to say that actually addresses the topic?
Do you agree or disagree that a simple definition of liberal and conservative is not possible?
I have let the other subject so please do the same.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Tram law, posted 04-29-2011 1:39 PM Tram law has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by Tram law, posted 04-29-2011 1:53 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
Tram law
Member (Idle past 4705 days)
Posts: 283
From: Weed, California, USA
Joined: 08-15-2010


Message 13 of 46 (613953)
04-29-2011 1:45 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by crashfrog
04-29-2011 1:41 PM


crashfrog writes:
I've never paid much to my town's politics.
Kind of my point. Like most people you've committed a fundamental attribution error about the effect of politics on your own life. Like all those people who complain about "Barack Obama's bank bailout."
I guarantee you, though, that issues of zoning, finance, and other local political issues matter far more to the state of your community than the actions of anybody in Washington. Especially in CA. But, like most people, you've ceded control of those political entities to highly-motivated business concerns and retired elderly. Do you think they have your interests at heart?
I really don't know. But somehow, I truly doubt it. I think it all depends on the specific issue though.
When it comes to my local politics I really don't know anything about it.
And I would appreciate it if you would please stop calling me kid.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by crashfrog, posted 04-29-2011 1:41 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by crashfrog, posted 04-29-2011 1:48 PM Tram law has replied
 Message 15 by Theodoric, posted 04-29-2011 1:52 PM Tram law has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 14 of 46 (613954)
04-29-2011 1:48 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Tram law
04-29-2011 1:45 PM


And I would appreciate it if you would please stop calling me kid.
I don't believe I've done that in any post to you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Tram law, posted 04-29-2011 1:45 PM Tram law has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by Tram law, posted 04-29-2011 1:54 PM crashfrog has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 15 of 46 (613956)
04-29-2011 1:52 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Tram law
04-29-2011 1:45 PM


Language issue?
This is a serious question.
Is English not your first language? It would explain some communications issues you seem to be having.
And I would appreciate it if you would please stop calling me kid.
I don't see where anyone called you kid.
Also, you seeming inability to tell the difference between the reply and rquote buttons.
We have a lot of non-native english speakers that participate so it isn't an issue, just would allow us to understand some things and give you some slack on some things too.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Tram law, posted 04-29-2011 1:45 PM Tram law has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024