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Author Topic:   The black hole at the center of the Universe.
Panda
Member (Idle past 3735 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 166 of 305 (700592)
06-04-2013 9:35 PM
Reply to: Message 162 by Peter Lamont
06-04-2013 8:43 PM


Re: Context
Peter Lamont writes:
Panda, I repeat, explosions (Big-Bang) start by accelerating. That's the initial kick.
Yes - it is an accelerating outward expansion.
No need to repeat it.
I agree - it is an accelerating outward expansion.
Peter Lamont writes:
How long does an explosion last - half a second?
Even if the outward expansion accelerates for just 1 second, it is still an accelerating outward expansion.
This clearly conflicts with your other claim that "Any 'accerlerating expansion' is Inward."
Peter Lamont writes:
Let me know what you think. As for those statements I made, I stand by them.
I've told you what I think: I think your statements are contradictory.
"explosions (Big-Bang) start by accelerating." contradicts "The only kind of expansion that accelerates is Inward."
I don't know how to make it any clearer.
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.

"There is no great invention, from fire to flying, which has not been hailed as an insult to some god." J. B. S. Haldane

This message is a reply to:
 Message 162 by Peter Lamont, posted 06-04-2013 8:43 PM Peter Lamont has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 175 by Peter Lamont, posted 06-05-2013 5:17 PM Panda has replied
 Message 178 by Peter Lamont, posted 06-05-2013 5:49 PM Panda has not replied

  
Peter Lamont
Member (Idle past 3964 days)
Posts: 147
Joined: 09-11-2012


Message 167 of 305 (700593)
06-04-2013 9:46 PM
Reply to: Message 156 by JonF
06-03-2013 8:58 AM


JonF, Because I use these 'experiments' to show that any 'accelerating expansion' is Inward, you say they have no relation to my thesis, that we are going in, not out. In my opinion, I have shown that any 'accelerating expansion' is Inward. I have satudied these 'accelerating expansions' and I know about ten (10) of them, all Inward. If you knew about them, these 'accelerating expansions,' you'd soon see they have to be Inward.
Outward expansions all slow down and stop. Do you agree?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 156 by JonF, posted 06-03-2013 8:58 AM JonF has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 170 by JonF, posted 06-05-2013 8:16 AM Peter Lamont has replied

  
Peter Lamont
Member (Idle past 3964 days)
Posts: 147
Joined: 09-11-2012


Message 168 of 305 (700597)
06-04-2013 10:13 PM
Reply to: Message 157 by New Cat's Eye
06-03-2013 9:59 AM


Nobody, not even you, Catholic Scientist, can see beyond the Observable Universe (OU). Do you agree or disagree?
Yes, I understand. Air on the left will be moving towards the air on the right, Confining things to fixed volumes can give unexpected results, but the room is not air-tight, in fact it has no roof. Air moving towards the nozzle will lose pressure, I'm sure you can see that - and in this case anyway, that's expansion. When you're in an expanding situation, with limited visibility, all you're going to see is things moving away from you. Do YOU understand?
In a vortex, all you will sense is that you are accelerating. That will cause you to lose pressure and expand, With limited vision, all you will see is things moving away from you, You might detect that the expansion is accelerating, as it would be.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 157 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-03-2013 9:59 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 174 by Taq, posted 06-05-2013 1:25 PM Peter Lamont has replied
 Message 198 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-06-2013 5:16 PM Peter Lamont has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 169 of 305 (700606)
06-04-2013 11:48 PM
Reply to: Message 163 by Peter Lamont
06-04-2013 9:07 PM


Re: Irony meter hits the peg...
This theory breaks no Laws. You call these Laws, 'Belly-Farts', that's your opinion, of course. It tells me more about you, No Nukes,
First, your nonsense does not constitute a theory. Secondly, I haven't called the laws of physics belly-farts. That term refers to your extrapolation of those laws into dissimilar situations. Thirdly, I could not care less about your opinion of me.
Density of a location in empty space is the highest average density of a system? That's an indefensible belly fart.
Ozymandias level hubris? That's supposed to be clear? I don't think so!
It's clear. I have provided you with the poet's name. I think the average person could have found the poem by now.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I would say here something that was heard from an ecclesiastic of the most eminent degree; ‘That the intention of the Holy Ghost is to teach us how one goes to heaven, not how the heaven goes.’ Galileo Galilei 1615.
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 163 by Peter Lamont, posted 06-04-2013 9:07 PM Peter Lamont has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 176 by Peter Lamont, posted 06-05-2013 5:32 PM NoNukes has replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 190 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 170 of 305 (700628)
06-05-2013 8:16 AM
Reply to: Message 167 by Peter Lamont
06-04-2013 9:46 PM


I have satudied these 'accelerating expansions' and I know about ten (10) of them, all Inward.
I don't care if you've got a billion of them. Your unjustified extrapolation to the Universe is the problem.
Outward expansions all slow down and stop. Do you agree?.
I can't, since for the Universe we don't know. The Universe is wildly different form the "experiments" you've listed, and there's no reason to believe it acts like any of those "experiments".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 167 by Peter Lamont, posted 06-04-2013 9:46 PM Peter Lamont has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 177 by Peter Lamont, posted 06-05-2013 5:46 PM JonF has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22480
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 171 of 305 (700631)
06-05-2013 9:05 AM
Reply to: Message 165 by Peter Lamont
06-04-2013 9:31 PM


Re: Context
Are you crazy, Peter? You can tell me.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 165 by Peter Lamont, posted 06-04-2013 9:31 PM Peter Lamont has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 179 by Peter Lamont, posted 06-05-2013 5:53 PM Percy has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10045
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 172 of 305 (700646)
06-05-2013 1:20 PM
Reply to: Message 163 by Peter Lamont
06-04-2013 9:07 PM


Re: Irony meter hits the peg...
This is the 'Mable Theory,' Mable being the Mother of All Black hoLEs. Mable has the most attractive body in the Universe - the black hole at the center nof the Universe.
Where is this center, and how far away is it?
Any accelerating expansion is inward;
Expansion, by definition, means outward. You are using an oxymoron.
If galaxies were moving inward then we would see a blue shift. We don't. We see the exact opposite which is a red shift, and that redshift increases with distance AND time demonstrating that galaxies are moving apart faster with time, not inward towards a central point or towards each other.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 163 by Peter Lamont, posted 06-04-2013 9:07 PM Peter Lamont has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 181 by Peter Lamont, posted 06-05-2013 6:00 PM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10045
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 173 of 305 (700647)
06-05-2013 1:22 PM
Reply to: Message 162 by Peter Lamont
06-04-2013 8:43 PM


Re: Context
We are going in, not out.
If we are going in then other galaxies should be coming towards us causing a blue shift. We don't see that. We see a red shift meaning that those galaxies are moving away from us, outwards.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 162 by Peter Lamont, posted 06-04-2013 8:43 PM Peter Lamont has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 182 by Peter Lamont, posted 06-05-2013 6:04 PM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10045
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 174 of 305 (700649)
06-05-2013 1:25 PM
Reply to: Message 168 by Peter Lamont
06-04-2013 10:13 PM


Air moving towards the nozzle will lose pressure, I'm sure you can see that
Air molecules moving towards each other from around the mozzle will produce a blue shift.
Again, the shift in the frequency of light has nothing to do with air pressure. It has to do with the relative velocity between two points. Two planes coming towards each other will produce a blue shift. Two planes moving away from each other will produce a red shift. It has nothing to do with any barometric pressure changes that might occur between or around the planes.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 168 by Peter Lamont, posted 06-04-2013 10:13 PM Peter Lamont has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 184 by Peter Lamont, posted 06-05-2013 6:17 PM Taq has not replied
 Message 185 by Peter Lamont, posted 06-05-2013 6:21 PM Taq has replied

  
Peter Lamont
Member (Idle past 3964 days)
Posts: 147
Joined: 09-11-2012


Message 175 of 305 (700656)
06-05-2013 5:17 PM
Reply to: Message 166 by Panda
06-04-2013 9:35 PM


Re: Context
Panda, Outward Expansions start with an initial kick - they start by accelerating. After the initial kick, the acceleration they started with, they slow down and eventually stop.
The only kind of expansion that accelerates and keeps accelerating is Inward.\
Is that clear enough for you? Can you see beyond the Observable Universe?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 166 by Panda, posted 06-04-2013 9:35 PM Panda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 180 by Panda, posted 06-05-2013 5:58 PM Peter Lamont has replied

  
Peter Lamont
Member (Idle past 3964 days)
Posts: 147
Joined: 09-11-2012


Message 176 of 305 (700658)
06-05-2013 5:32 PM
Reply to: Message 169 by NoNukes
06-04-2013 11:48 PM


Re: Irony meter hits the peg...
Okay, No Nukes, you continue to misquote me - well that's your business, but I don't like it. Any 'accelerating expansion' is Inward. We are going in.
That's why our expansion is accelerating. If there was nothing there at the center of mass of the Universe, our Rate of Acceleration would decline all the way to the center where we would no longer be accelerating. The moment we passed the center, we would start to deccelerate.
Everything I read tells me that our Rate of Acceleration is Increasing, and that can only mean a black hole.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 169 by NoNukes, posted 06-04-2013 11:48 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 189 by NoNukes, posted 06-06-2013 12:06 AM Peter Lamont has replied

  
Peter Lamont
Member (Idle past 3964 days)
Posts: 147
Joined: 09-11-2012


Message 177 of 305 (700660)
06-05-2013 5:46 PM
Reply to: Message 170 by JonF
06-05-2013 8:16 AM


JonF, All Outward Expansions slow down and stop. Saying Anti-Gravity is pushing the Universe apart is ridiculous. The same laws apply here on Earth as apply in the Universe. If any 'accelerating expansion' is Inward on Earth, it's Inward in Space too.
Why not extrapolate? I was a teacher for years and we were taught to explain difficult concepts by easy ones. Your Universe is backwards. You look back to a Big-Bang.
My theory is forward looking - all about where we're going. In the end you will suit yourself, I'm sure.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 170 by JonF, posted 06-05-2013 8:16 AM JonF has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 190 by JonF, posted 06-06-2013 8:20 AM Peter Lamont has replied

  
Peter Lamont
Member (Idle past 3964 days)
Posts: 147
Joined: 09-11-2012


Message 178 of 305 (700662)
06-05-2013 5:49 PM
Reply to: Message 166 by Panda
06-04-2013 9:35 PM


Re: Context
Panda, Outward Expansions start with an initial kick - they start by accelerating. After the initial kick, the acceleration they started with, they slow down and eventually stop.
The only kind of expansion that accelerates and keeps accelerating is Inward.\
Is that clear enough for you? Can you see beyond the Observable Universe?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 166 by Panda, posted 06-04-2013 9:35 PM Panda has not replied

  
Peter Lamont
Member (Idle past 3964 days)
Posts: 147
Joined: 09-11-2012


Message 179 of 305 (700663)
06-05-2013 5:53 PM
Reply to: Message 171 by Percy
06-05-2013 9:05 AM


Re: Context
No, Percy - I'm not. I just don't believe in Anti-Gravity. I believe in Gravity alone, running the Universe.
Something I never asked you, Percy. Can you see beyond the Observable Universe?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 171 by Percy, posted 06-05-2013 9:05 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 191 by Percy, posted 06-06-2013 8:21 AM Peter Lamont has replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3735 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 180 of 305 (700664)
06-05-2013 5:58 PM
Reply to: Message 175 by Peter Lamont
06-05-2013 5:17 PM


Re: Context
Peter Lamont writes:
Outward Expansions start with an initial kick - they start by accelerating.
Yes - it is an accelerating outward expansion.
It is an outward expansion, yes?
And it is accelerating, yes?
Therefore....it is an....accelerating outward expansion, yes?
The outward expansion is accelerating, yes?
Peter Lamont writes:
The only kind of expansion that accelerates and keeps accelerating is Inward.
But if you listen to what Peter Lamont and I have been saying: "Outward Expansions ... they start by accelerating." you will see that both inward AND outward expansions accelerate.
Is that clear enough for you?

"There is no great invention, from fire to flying, which has not been hailed as an insult to some god." J. B. S. Haldane

This message is a reply to:
 Message 175 by Peter Lamont, posted 06-05-2013 5:17 PM Peter Lamont has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 186 by Peter Lamont, posted 06-05-2013 6:27 PM Panda has replied

  
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