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Author Topic:   ONE GOD OF THREE RELIGIONS?
MexicanHotChocolate
Inactive Member


Message 31 of 47 (115280)
06-15-2004 3:56 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by Buzsaw
06-14-2004 11:39 PM


Re: My Two Cents Worth
The word YHWH is not a name, it is more like a title or description and means something like I am that I am...It was only used by the priests and scribes. Ordinary people to this day use Elohim in Hebrew. Most of the common folk of Jesus' time spoke Aramaic and would have used Alahu or Allah. Christian Arabs as well as Muslims use Allah as the name for God. I have met Arabs of both persuasions and know this to be the case.

Our loyalties are to the species and the planet. We speak for Earth. Our obligation to survive is owed not just to ourselves but also to that Cosmos, ancient and vast, from which we spring.
--Carl Sagan, 1934-1996

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Dragon_Lady
Inactive Member


Message 32 of 47 (184511)
02-11-2005 2:07 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by crashfrog
06-12-2004 2:25 AM


The important point here is "till all be fulfilled". That is untill the blood sacrifice of Jesus had been given.

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Dragon_Lady
Inactive Member


Message 33 of 47 (184512)
02-11-2005 2:23 AM
Reply to: Message 31 by MexicanHotChocolate
06-15-2004 3:56 AM


Re: My Two Cents Worth
El, Elah and Elohim were commonly used by the Jews. The *Hebrew root word Alah means a rude deprecating remark, the root word elah means mighty oak or other strong tree. Alah can also mean leaf, top of the tree, and the mighty one. The root word Allah means attacked by (usually) a mouse. These words (in Hebrew) can also mean God. It's just a theory but I wonder if that is because the Jews, Arabs etc used to live together pre-Mohammed and the meanings of the words became mixed in.
The Arabs used the word Allah before Mohammed for their 'Top'god, when Mo. introduced Monotheism to a Pagan audience he simply used a word they already associated with a 'main' god, he just got rid of the other gods/esses or 'partners.
I myself don't feel their 'Allah' is the same as the Christian/Jewish God as what Allah teaches is very different in morals/creed. Mohammed used to recieve revelations regarding robbing caravans, killing prisoners, raping women prisoners etc. Allah also seems to spend an inordinate amount of time making sure Mohammed gets what he wants. Every time Mo breaks a law, he gets a revelation, even an abrogation! if thats what it takes to keep him happy. There is even a surah where Allah appears to 'wait' to talk to Mo. before deciding something.
*Strongs Hebrew Dictionary.

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boomatt
Inactive Junior Member


Message 34 of 47 (187101)
02-20-2005 10:11 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Andya Primanda
06-11-2004 10:39 PM


sounds to me like man is more powerful than allah

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Andya Primanda
Inactive Member


Message 35 of 47 (187737)
02-23-2005 9:39 AM
Reply to: Message 34 by boomatt
02-20-2005 10:11 PM


I couldn't possibly comment on that, but at least God keeps the Qur'an intact. So He's still all-powerful there

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Andya Primanda
Inactive Member


Message 36 of 47 (187738)
02-23-2005 9:41 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by Dragon_Lady
02-11-2005 2:23 AM


Re: My Two Cents Worth
quote:
The Arabs used the word Allah before Mohammed for their 'Top'god, when Mo. introduced Monotheism to a Pagan audience he simply used a word they already associated with a 'main' god, he just got rid of the other gods/esses or 'partners.
I myself don't feel their 'Allah' is the same as the Christian/Jewish God as what Allah teaches is very different in morals/creed. Mohammed used to recieve revelations regarding robbing caravans, killing prisoners, raping women prisoners etc. Allah also seems to spend an inordinate amount of time making sure Mohammed gets what he wants. Every time Mo breaks a law, he gets a revelation, even an abrogation! if thats what it takes to keep him happy. There is even a surah where Allah appears to 'wait' to talk to Mo. before deciding something.
Care to point out which revelations are these?

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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 37 of 47 (187787)
02-23-2005 12:57 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by Dragon_Lady
02-11-2005 2:07 AM


The important point here is "till all be fulfilled". That is untill the blood sacrifice of Jesus had been given.
No, until all laws be fulfilled. And Jesus tells us when that happens:
quote:
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
-Matthew 18
I guess you can make up whatever you want, but when it comes to reading the Bible, I prefer to stick with what's actually there.

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Monk
Member (Idle past 3924 days)
Posts: 782
From: Kansas, USA
Joined: 02-25-2005


Message 38 of 47 (189924)
03-03-2005 9:49 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by crashfrog
02-23-2005 12:57 PM


crashfrog writes:
I guess you can make up whatever you want, but when it comes to reading the Bible, I prefer to stick with what's actually there
That's fine, but it would be more helpful if you listed the Bible version you are using and also quoted the verse.

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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 39 of 47 (189958)
03-04-2005 2:23 AM
Reply to: Message 38 by Monk
03-03-2005 9:49 PM


hat's fine, but it would be more helpful if you listed the Bible version you are using and also quoted the verse.
Well, I did quote the verse, and it's from the King James bible.

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contracycle
Inactive Member


Message 40 of 47 (189976)
03-04-2005 5:15 AM


What this thread shows is that Christians are far more doctrinaire and fanatical than Muslims.
It takes an almost conscious and pernicious effort not to see this clearly. Eloh and Allah are very similar phonetically - are christians here claiming that the German god is not the same god because a different word in a different language is used to mean "god"?
Are christians so dogmatically stupid to think that the word "god" is the actual name of god? If not, then isn't it obvious that every culture must say the word "god" in their own language? With their own accents and intonations?
Again, it seems the further away you are from being a christian believer - that is, Jews, Muslims and Atheists all able to see the relationship between the three religions of the book hinges on interpretation of *who Jesus and Mohammad were*, not on which god they worship. It seems modern christian understanding of the origins of their own religion, and its relationship to other religions, are inferior to those quite widespread during the Renaisaance and Reformation.

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ohnhai
Member (Idle past 5162 days)
Posts: 649
From: Melbourne, Australia
Joined: 11-17-2004


Message 41 of 47 (189982)
03-04-2005 5:57 AM
Reply to: Message 40 by contracycle
03-04-2005 5:15 AM


3 in 1
What this thread shows is that Christians are far more doctrinaire and fanatical than Muslims.
Course they are and it’s all down to the increase in fundamentalism due to the continued encroachment of secularisation.
If you look through the lens of comparative mythology you will see the same stories and themes emerging time after time after time. You will find in disparate cultures stories of great beasts being slain by man (man’s conquest over nature) and so on. There is little point in arguing which version of the dragon myth is the real one because they all tell the same story at their core. It similar to having three brands of vanilla ice-cream. You may prefer one over the other , either because you consider that it tastes better or that was the brand your mother always used to buy, but in the end they are all vanilla, so why bother to argue the toss?
All three religions at their core are focused round the same entity and it’s only the trimmings and tales that differ. But the faithful will always argue in desperation to protect their 'territory', and it’s because of that tendency to fight for what they see as their ‘patch’ we see the problems and antagonism that this generates. It is painfully clear to see that all three have many large areas of mutual overlap. With such overlaps conflict is inevitable when it comes to a theological turf war. (Which sadly spills out in to the real world as we see in the middle east, just look at Jerusalem.
The three religions have so much in common yet chose to focus on their differences and that is what is so fundamentally sad.
This message has been edited by ohnhai, 04 March 2005 11:05 AM

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 42 of 47 (189987)
03-04-2005 6:52 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by Hangdawg13
06-11-2004 11:12 PM


Living Truth vs Fundamental words
Hangdawg writes:
Fundamentalist Muslims clearly do not believe they are the same God and believe Allah is one. They denounce the trinity. They do not believe Christ was God and believe killing all Christians and Jews is Allah's will. They believe America and Western culture is the Great Satan. Of course not all Muslims are this extreme and many do believe they are the same God. Just like Christians and Jews many ignore the parts of their holy book that they do not like or simply tone it down to their liking in their interpretation.
Dawg, it has been my impression that each faith has issues.
1) In the West, if Christianity were to be strictly followed, we would use our wealth to evangelize and embrace the world rather than bombing it. Muslims see our faith and our actions as a contradiction. We claim to know God and are short of a theocracy yet we are in practice idolators and worshippers of materialism and human image. That is the bad side: We are human and we also have good qualities.
2) Judaism was historically concluded in unbelief by rejecting the Messiah the first time. This also was a result of sticking to fundamental written truth and ignoring the Living Truth who begged them to lay down their dogmatic ideology and embrace Him.
3) Islam has the rituialism and the good works mentality instilled within them, yet they also struggle with human rights and oppression issues on a global scale. They do not want to embrace Western idolatry commercialism. They simply do not want a McDonalds on every corner in Saudi Arabia!
Odd and yet profound how the birth of the three great faiths sprang from a similar root. The entire scenario will be solved eventually.
Either everyone will finally learn to lay down their preconceived human fundamentals and embrace a living God or more likely society will attempt to abolish religion and human nature will rear its ugly sterile head one last time.
Yes, humanists, I believe that we will never leave our dogma behind.

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Monk
Member (Idle past 3924 days)
Posts: 782
From: Kansas, USA
Joined: 02-25-2005


Message 43 of 47 (189995)
03-04-2005 8:33 AM
Reply to: Message 39 by crashfrog
03-04-2005 2:23 AM


Ah, then its the chapter that's missing. I looked it up and your quote is from chapter 5.
So your reference would be as follows:
"KJV - Matthew 5:18"

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Trixie
Member (Idle past 3706 days)
Posts: 1011
From: Edinburgh
Joined: 01-03-2004


Message 44 of 47 (190088)
03-04-2005 4:32 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by contracycle
03-04-2005 5:15 AM


Not all Christians, please!
Please don't lump all Christians together on this one. Am I the only Christian who is willing to stand up and say that I think the three religions are worshipping the one God? I can't work out what isso difficult about this. Buz goes on and on about the "name" of God and won't even accept that Allah may just happen to be the Arabic word for God, with a capital "G" (if you know what I mean).
As for the posts which point out the "errors" in the Jewish and Muslim religions, I'm sure that the Jews and Muslims can happily reciprocate. I'm beginning to feel, once more, that I'll have to stop saying that I'm a Christian as I don't really want to be associated with some of the extremist remarks I come across.

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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 45 of 47 (190096)
03-04-2005 5:09 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by Trixie
03-04-2005 4:32 PM


Re: Not all Christians, please!
Am I the only Christian who is willing to stand up and say that I think the three religions are worshipping the one God?
Nope. In fact most Christian Churches seem to accept that, as do most Jewish and Muslim ones as well.
I'm beginning to feel, once more, that I'll have to stop saying that I'm a Christian as I don't really want to be associated with some of the extremist remarks I come across.
I understand the feeling but please don't do so. Instead, keep standing up against the powers of the Exclusionary folk and help show others that not all Christians are bigots.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
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