why is your religion the 'right' one?

I totally respect your stand. Although I no longer believe in hell myself, I still believe in God and many of the things that Jesus taught. For some people, God and Jesus are in doubt, and for some people Jesus said alot of great things. I say hold on to your beliefs, but don't go to extremes with them. That's not healthy in my opinion.[This message has been edited by Prozacman, 10-02-2003]

Hey Flamingo, you're NOT the only one here with a theistic-evolutionary stance!

I can construct a framework around a transcendent entity.On the reverse side, from an Atheist's point of view you have to deal heavily with relativism. Where do your morals come from? It seems that a completely materialistic point of view would argue that so called morality really stems from a geneticly ingrained selfishness, which isn't morality at all.Any attempt at setting up a system of morallity will ultimately be based upon human selfishness.Keep in mind that I am not making any kind of value judgements here, I'm not saying that one set of beliefs is intrensicly 'better' than another. I believe that morality when based upon your own ultimate good is not morality.------------------
"Science without religion is lame; religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstein

How do you construct a framework around a transcendant entity that is any better than a human-centred framework ?How do you deal with the problem posed by the Euthyphro dilemma ?

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I can construct a framework around a transcendent entity.
On the reverse side, from an Atheist's point of view you have to deal heavily with relativism.

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I know you may not be saying this, but I often hear the implication from religious people that this is a good reason for believing in God. On the contrary, the ability to effectively base our morality on a particular belief is of no value in determining whether it is true.

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Where do your morals come from? It seems that a completely materialistic point of view would argue that so called morality really stems from a geneticly ingrained selfishness, which isn't morality at all.

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Any attempt at setting up a system of morallity will ultimately be based upon human selfishness.

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Are you saying people are incapable of forming a consensus about what is best for society and living according to it? It seems to me that decent human beings are capable of putting the greater good ahead of their own, and do so quite often, when it comes to moral standards.[This message has been edited by zephyr, 10-02-2003]

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don't be surprised if you become a theist or an agnostic on day.

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I WILL NEVER BE AN ATHEIST OR AN AGNOSTIC. In fact in 20 years this statement will hold true. I guarantee you.

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say hold on to your beliefs, but don't go to extremes with them. That's not healthy in my opinion.

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Why?

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Why would one have to come to that conclusion? All the evidence points to there being no zap-poof creation. It all points to an ancient Earth and evolution.

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I would say prove it but alas that's another forum

How so?

Hi,Regarding your 'prophecy' I said much the same when I was your age and even up until I was about 20, but things happen Messenjah, you never know what is around the corner.Unfortunately, some things happen in our lives that make us question God's existence, I hope you have very few of these instances and that your faith gives you comfort during these times.But, although it seems impossible for you at this moment in time to ever deny God, sometimes you may find an answer to a question leads to more questions and more answers and then you never know what might happen.Anyway, just my twopence worth, keep your faith but don't sacrifice your integrity.Brian

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Christianity tries to teach people that. But the thought process is completely circular. Nobody has ever looked at nature and intuitively derived any specific tenets of your belief system from it. Only a pre-existing belief in God declares that the heavens declare the existence of God, which, as has been pointed out, still offers no specific information about him or what he wants from us.

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Well from my standpoint ancient people knew they were created by God and feared him and told their kin about this and so on and so on..... And as you can see God revealed himself in different ways then he does in the Old Testament.

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Because Allah lacked the grace to allow Messenjah to be born in a part of the world where everyone is Muslim. But you probably knew that already.
Prime determinant of religious belief, worldwide: geographic location. Hardly a satisfying criterion to form the basis of eternal judgment.

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Actually, my mother was an evolutionist, if she was still alive today I wouldn't have known anything I knew now. I actually can remember when I was younger being taught of neanderthals, etc... That is partly one of the reasons why I know God is propelling me towards christianity. Don't get me wrong I don't hold anything against her. It is I guess just a theory. Plus I probably wouldn't even have a strong belief in God either. I would have been catholic and I wouldn't have questioned or thought twice. I would be going to church and hating it, not knowing God at all. From all my arguing in CCD and with the priest I know now that in my case Catholicism leads people away from God. I must admit geographic location does help and I am grateful for it, but as you can see in the USA I wouldn't have been a follower of Christ if just one tragedy hadn't occurred in my life. So I strongly disagree with you. If I was in the Middle East I know Jesus would find me, some way some how...

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I am trying to Get you exposed to new Ideas you most likely aren't use to hearing in a christen family.

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I wish my family was a christian family.... However without my experiences at my bible conferences I have realized it was not. My family is a traditionally catholic family, you know the one that is all catholic all around. I am actually being forced to recieve confirmation, that is if I don't get kicked out first because I was arguing with the teacher when he said the Big Bang theory is a theory with God. He believes Hugh Ross's theories, books, attempts are the Big Bang theory. That is partly, mostly why I believe Hugh Ross is harming more people then helping. The catholic church accepts everything most atheists accept except the fact that they believe God guided it all.

Because God is the Alpha and the Omega. There was a beginning, he created it and there will be an end

guarantee? Thats a pretty big assumption you have made there..... I know you won't like this but..... you sound just like I did at one point . I was a real faithful Christen like you.(I was)I noticed you left theist out..... is that a possibility? After all they have belief in a God or "gods"(for a short time I was a theist then I thought.... how do I know?)
Agnostic is not doubt or disbelief it more like "I am not sure" kind of look at the universe. I find it much easier to say I don't know something then to say "this happened". It also frees my mind of min breaking questions such as the ones we are asking you.
I didn't even mention atheist........

I would have to disagree with you on the big bang.... Why couldn't the Big Bang be the moment of creation of the universe.... then he created Earth etc.. etc.. ? I don't really see why you argued with that....... however Evolution I can't see ever going hand and hand with the Bible. the big bang I can However.... The catholic church will never tell you evolution is wrong... or anything else is wrong... but it is REALLY implied... (REALLY)