Summations Only

I don't know. The Crusades were more like an attacking army in what became a war, than quite what I have in mind. I think I'd need to see an individual Muslim threatened with the rack if he doesn't recant.

I read up on it HEREThat's a lie. The rack? The iron maiden? Do you mean perhaps the boring of a hole in the tongue of those who blasphemed the Trinity? It's a kind of torture but it's basically just a mode of punishment along lines practiced back then. And besides who would blaspheme the Trinity? Both Protestants and Catholics affirm it. After a lot of political chaos and confusion the Puritans got into power and took away Catholic rights, whereas when the Catholics were in power they maneuvered things so that Catholics had all the power. Big political mess.Yes the Puritans did outlaw Roman Catholicism when they were in power, which they'd done in all the colonies as a matter of fact. The Constitution's granting religious tolerance to Catholics was treachery against the Protestant colonies.And again, there was no torture. Miscreants got hanged or punished in various ways when either side was in power. But no torture. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

OK, I'll concede the point. I'd still like to know about how Muslims would deal with the rack when threatened with it or recanting.

I didn't mean to discount dying for 72 virgins, I'm just interested in knowing how long that enticement would hold up if threatened with lengthy torture for not recanting.

I just wonder how long a Muslim will hold on to his belief if threatened with lengthy torture. I think that may be the ultimate test. I'm sure that anticipating death in a suicide bombing could be anxiety-provoking but they know it's going to be over quickly and I'd suppose they could sustain their hope of reward for killing some Jews or Christians that long.

I'll concede this too since apparently there's no way to make the case. I do rather think that the history of Christians dying for their faith in the tens of millions over the centuries -- eaten by lions, burned as torches for Nero's gardens, tortured in horrendous ways, burned at the stake down through the centuries -- adds up to a testimony to the truth of Christianity, but I can see that there's no way to prove it to others.

Not really. Mostly christian lies.
International Dictionary of Historic Places: Southern Europe - Google Books
"The Myth of Persecution": Early Christians weren't persecuted | Salon.comI mean if you can actually find evidence by all means present it.What is your evidence Nero even knew anything about christians?ABE
See myth #3
http://www.cracked.com/...e-about-ancient-civilizations.htmlEdited by Theodoric, : No reason given.

I'm sorry but revolution, whippings, driving folk out of the colony are not torture? Sure the iron maiden had gone out of style by then as had burning at the stake, but still, Protestants, particularly Puritans were and still are a force to be feared.Funny how the Catholics could support religious tolerance but Puritans not only tried to take power by force but also outlaw Roman Catholicism.

Nothing "funny" about it. Roman Catholicism had been thoroughly discredited by the Reformers as completely unchristian and the papacy as Antichrist. Their history of persecuting anyone who would not submit to their antichristian doctrine made them untrustworthy so they were deprived of political rights wherever Protestants had any knowledge of all this. In England they finally disbarred Catholics from the throne, after Bloody Mary's reign and the propensity of the RCC to attack Protestants and their attempt to blow up King James. In America the colonies were founded by Protestants who knew the history of Rome in Europe. Too bad all that has been forgotten over the last century or two. Maryland seems to have had a rather aberrant history compared to the norm,.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Shit Faith, not only do you seem to not know what the Bibles says or the history of protestantism you don't know US history too.Most of the colonies were founded as business enterprises, prisons, or various chapters of Club Christian trying to avoid persecution by the other chapters of Club Christian.Maryland was one example of the latter. It was founded to provide sanctuary for Roman Catholics fleeing persecution by Protestants in England but it did allow limited religious freedom until the Puritan Revolt.AbE:But let's try to get back towards the topic.Do you have any evidence that the Bible sould be considered inerrant?If inerrant then how do you decide which of the many conflicting and contradictory passages is inerrant?Edited by jar, : see AbE:

Catholic Church in the Thirteen Colonies

Nice bare link Faith. Did you actually read any of it? Did you notice the first sentence?

quote:

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The situation of the Catholic Church in the Thirteen Colonies was characterized by an extensive religious persecution originating from Protestant sects, which would barely allow religious toleration to Catholics living on American territory until the country obtained its independence from the United Kingdom in 1783.

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Note it was Protestants persecuting Roman Catholics.When Puritans in particular ever gained power they immediately outlawed other religions which is why the Puritans were rightly feared (and should still feared).It was fear of Puritans that lead to the inclusion of religious freedom in the First Amendment.But what does that have to do with the topic or the questions I asked?

I figured your lack of information that required me to read up on Maryland deserved a bare link. Or less.Yes that was the point of the post. Protestants did not want Catholics in the original Colonies. There were degrees and variations but that was the overall trend. Because of their history in Europe. As I already said. Which you nastily and rudely and falsely denied.Religious toleration is nothing but suicide with religions that want to rule the world and kill people who refuse to believe as they do, or behead them and that sort of thing. The Puritans may have overdone their exclusionary principles but that can hardly be compared with the murder of fifty million by the Antichrist papacy. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Thank you for explaining why Calvinists and Puritans should be feared even today. Maryland was established as a place of refuge from Puritan intolerance and oppression until the Puritans gained power.But what does that have to do with the topic or the questions I asked?

Don't forget that a lot of Christians have recanted too.