|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
Summations Only | Thread ▼ Details |
Member (Idle past 363 days) Posts: 438 From: Tempe, Az. Joined: |
|
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: Arizona: Showing America how to avoid thinking since 1912 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
DevilsAdvocate Member (Idle past 3129 days) Posts: 1548 Joined:
|
Where is this right of which you speak granted? I do not see the tight to refuse service anywhere. Not in Constitution or Bill of Rights or any state constitution. There is no right to refuse service. It is a "right" manufactured by ultra-ultra-conservatives. I would say even the vast majority of Christian denominations out there i.e. Methodists (of which I am a member), Roman Catholics, Presbyterian, Episcopalian etc. with exception of the few outlier extremists do not support the Arizona law. Even some members of the conservative Southern Baptist Convention are on the fence with this issue.
Russell Moore, the president of the Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission at the Southern Baptist Convention has recently jumped into the debate about whether wedding photographers should record same-sex weddings. Moore wrote in a Gospel Coalition column that "the couple asking you to do this wedding aren't your enemies. They are made in the image of God and loved by him and so should be loved by us." But Moore advised against participating, saying, "But we must stand with kindness as well as with conviction." This issues is a touchy subject, but I think some Christians are over-reacting on this and making this a bigger moral dilemna than it really is. After all, Jesus ate, drank and talked to people considered moral deginerates. Taking photos or baking a cake is not condoning a practice any more than someone who makes a cake for an Islamic or Hindu wedding is condoning that marriage. If you consider photographing homosexual weddings as the same as affirming that marriage, than you as a Christian would be a hypocrite if you photographed weddings of non-Christians, divorced Christians, or people who slept together before marriage (which includes some Christians). Where do you draw the line. According to the Bible, sin is sin. Those who have pre-marital sex are as guilty as homosexuals, are they not? However, no one is making a big deal of baking cakes or photographing for these couples. Faith, I encourage you to rationally read the following three articles. The second one is from the president of the Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission at the Southern Baptist Convention (not exactly a liberal source). Would Jesus Bake a Cake for a Gay Wedding in Arizona?...... | News & Reporting |
Christianity Today Should a Christian Photographer Work at a Same-Sex Wedding Ceremony? Conservative Christians Selectively Apply Biblical Teachings in the Same-Sex Marriage Debate Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given."It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World "In coming to understand anything we are rejecting the facts as they are for us in favour of the facts as they are. - C.S. Lewis, An Experiment in Criticism
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Far as I know all I'm condoning is the right to conscientiously refuse to do anything that is felt to support gay marriage. No hatred of people is involved at all, except possibly from your side against mine.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Taking photos or baking a cake is not condoning a practice any more than someone who makes a cake for an Islamic or Hindu wedding is condoning that marriage. Really you ought to leave it to the people involved to define what is a matter of conscience. ABE I agree that Christians should not do anything at all to condone any kind of sin whatever, but again, what a person feels to be a condoning act is not for you to define. /ABE Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
dronestar Member Posts: 1417 From: usa Joined: Member Rating: 6.4
|
Hi Faith,
Just reading your well-reasoned posts. I'm with you all way on this issue. I can't believe america has 'evolved' into a society that takes a stand AGAINST freedom of conscience. I work as a furrier who sometimes does some tailoring on the slide. Well, a few weeks ago, this 'individual' came in asking for alterations on a suit that had a blend of rayon AND cotton. Can you believe it?! A garment with a BLEND of materials!!! Well, let me tells ya, the fascist laws of the united states is not gonna tell ME who I have to do business with. So I threw 'Joseph and his Amazing Multi-blended Dreamcoat' to the curb. I'll NEVER stop refusing service on the grounds of MY conscience, logic and obviously superior Christian values. Leviticus 19:19: "neither shall a garment mingled of linen and woolen come upon thee".
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ooh-child Member (Idle past 371 days) Posts: 242 Joined:
|
Far as I know all I'm condoning is the right to conscientiously refuse to do anything that is felt to support gay marriage. Then don't set up a business in the public marketplace. Keep to private clubs, organizations, and the like. This is the core of the issue, Faith. Believe what you want, support whom you want, but keep it private. Once you enter into the public, you have rules to participate in that public place.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
You might read my posts on the subject of what in the OT applied only to the Israelites.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I see, now not only is a person denied freedom of conscience but even the freedom to start a business.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ooh-child Member (Idle past 371 days) Posts: 242 Joined: |
So, you want folks to be able to run a business any way they want? No regulations, no laws restricting business practices, is that it?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
dronestar Member Posts: 1417 From: usa Joined: Member Rating: 6.4 |
Faith writes: You might read my posts on the subject of what in the OT applied only to the Israelites. Considering the topic "not being allowed to discriminate against violations/violators in the OT," the irony of you writing that is off the charts. Edited by dronester, : clarity
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
No of course businesses have to be regulated. I'm talking about a matter of personal conscience which should not be regulated.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
There is no way you are going to get me to treat homosexuality as the equivalent of race.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
There is no way you are going to get me to treat homosexuality as the equivalent of race or sex.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ooh-child Member (Idle past 371 days) Posts: 242 Joined: |
One person's 'personal conscience' is this country's bigotry. 'Public accomodation' was settled with our civil rights legislation 50 years ago. I'm surprised you're not well versed in American history, proud patriot that you are.
Civil rights movement - Wikipedia(1955%E2%80%9368)
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
There is no way you are going to get me to treat homosexuality as the equivalent of race.
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024